Anyone can win, just as soon as you guys stop fighting tooth and nail to keep anyone but the most moderate democrat from being allowed to compete.
Man the delusion is always so real in a circular firing squad lol.
someone should figure out how to clone him
Here from PA to tell you you’re nuts, Bernie would not have won.
Also: Downvote. Since we’re not mature enough to handle actual downvotes anymore.
Also: Downvote. Since we’re not mature enough to handle actual downvotes anymore.
Maybe you’re not…
Good one
Didn’t pre-stroke Fetterman win in PA? Often he was compared to Bernie, although maybe the media got that one wrong considering what stances Fetterman leans on these days.
He did, but my opinion as someone who voted for him: he’s really not accomplished anything, hasn’t been the same after the stroke. I’m told his impairment is simply audio/visual but in my mind his judgment is impaired.
When he won, he was running against a clown (Dr. Oz) who only narrowly beat McCormick. (McCormick just recently defeated long-time incumbent Casey and is considered much more serious and competent.) I know many people who based their vote for Fetterman on the the issue of recreational marijuana legalization (even though he doesn’t have a role in accomplishing that at the state level as a US senator).
Anyway, I would not expect Fetterman to be re-elected, if he even runs.
Here from PA to disagree. I believe that if Bernie had won in 2016, his VP would be our president-elect right now, and Trump would’ve never attempted a return to politics.
Perhaps you’d like to elaborate?
In this case I actually think the downvotes are appropriate. It’s not that you’re presenting a different opinion but you’re not adding any reasoning or substance to your claim
If they can deny a genocide is occuring in Gaza they can deny that Bernie would have won with the same intellectual rigor.
Bernie may have, but also fuck The Intercept and we dodged a bullet not letting Tulsi Gabbard anywhere near the White House (I mean, until now anyway).
It seemed that it was a rejection of whatever political group was in power across the globe for the most part this year. This is largely in part because the world as a whole is still healing/recovering from the damage of COVID, and in the US the Dems were left to clean up an economic disaster left by Trump. And we have a large number of people who felt the effects of inflation and for reasons I can’t wrap my head around felt the Dems needed to be voted out. Then we had all the people who wanted to teach the Dems a lesson because of Gaza by making sure Trump was elected to help Israel level the area and make sure there was no future for Palestinians (which is another contradiction I can’t wrap my head around).
So really I think the Dems could have had a unicorn candidate (Bernie) and they still would have lost this election, because enough people only vote for themselves.
Under Trump, Palestine as understood today will cease to exist and Israel will have two new superfund sites to deal with
Under the democrats today, this is literally happening and has for the past year now.
Do you think the outcome would be different under democrats? Please tell me how the party that has given billions in support of israel’s genocide for over a year was so totally going to stop it at any moment if they just simply got voted in again.
If you’re still asking this question, you are either a disingenuous troll or you are beyond help. You obviously haven’t spent even five minutes trying to understand why the U.S. is still funding Israel and the general positions of the two candidates and instead feel that time is better spent riffing on the same Lemmy buzzword.
The Biden/Harris administration just declared, that their “red-line” for more weapons to Israel, the continued starvation of Gaza with an ultimatum to today, was indeed not a red-line.
Look at the actions, not at the words. There is absolutely no indication by the actions of Biden and Harris, that they would ends Israels US funded genocide. Especially now as the whole “we need to toe the line, because of the Israel-Lobby” bullshit falls apart. The election is over. If the Dems had any serious interest in preventing Israel from annihilating Palestine, now would be the time to do so. They don’t. Because they always were and still are in support of Israels genocide.
…yuuuup. the US position under the two main parties is about the same on the Palestine issue. The only difference is the speed and intensity that actions will take.
Calling for a cease fire is definitely the same as what you wrote. /s
Rewriting history isn’t supposed to be on the schedule for freedom loving folks.
Someone else assembled this reference for those ignorant of the news.
I don’t think that the final, final outcome would be different. You are completely right on this. But under Trump it will be supercharged and any restraint that existed to this point will be gone.
Fucking THANK YOU, for elucidating this so cleanly into a two paragraphs.
The wandering shell shock on Lemmy for a week was miserable to witness.
Do you guys really believe the populist position is to “vote the Democrats out” and that Gaza was really the reason for voter apathy that effects half the population? Couldn’t be messaging or effective policies being lacking, definitely blame anyone against a continually funded arsenal in the hands of aggressive governments.
Your right. The anti-establishment mood in this country and abroad has been building for decades. Americans have never voted based on foreign policy unless that foreign policy is directly impacting them.
I agree. If we now acknowledge that genocide was a relevant factor in making the Dems loose, this is bad for AIPAC. We need to quickly reestablish different narratives to protect AIPAC interests by claiming it was everything but the genocide. It took AIPAC a few days to develop the new narratives but now we need to embrace them.
So really I think the Dems could have had a unicorn candidate (Bernie) and they still would have lost this election, because enough people only vote for themselves.
I always vote “for myself” which meant voting for Harris. Her policies are more in line with my best interests than all that maga bullshit.
By “vote for themselves” I meant people voting based on the outcome for them personally. My being a white male allows me a large amount of privilege in this country, and so I choose to use my vote to help others (knowing it doesn’t put us anywhere close to being treated equal overall). So my vote for Harris was to help women, people of color, immigrants, the kids (who are going to have education decimated now and white washed so much more than it already has been), and for trans kids/adults, for everyone in the LGBTQ+ orbit, and on and on. What would benefit me didn’t even play into it, because I’d be fine comparatively (minus the anxiety/depression that Trump causes).
I love Bernie, but he would not have won. He’s not healthy enough to have run a national campaign like that, not after his heart event in 2019.
Honestly I think he would have simply because with the evidence we’ve seen, Americans are really that stupid and racist they as long as you promise them you’d magically fix all of their problems without any plan behind it.
Americans are rightfully concerned about the economy and I, even as a upper middle class person, was concerned about inflation but I’m pretty plugged into what’s going on in the world because I have the luxury of having a job where I’m posting on Lemmy in the middle of the day.
Bernie would have offered loud, in your face I’m going to fuck corporations and get you a living wage, wither he could actually do that given America, it wouldn’t have mattered because that what Americans wanted to hear, even if you never wanted to do that in the first place.
God I hate that Greenday is correct.
I didn’t vote for Bernie in the 2020 primary for the same reason I didn’t vote for Biden.
Both men are too old!
You sure showed us, remind me how old is your president going to be next year and ever year after that?
How did I “show you” by not voting for your preferred candidate in the 2020 election? Is your logic that by not voting for Bernie, I caused Biden to be elected, which then led to Trump 2024?
By not voting for an old candidate for one party in the 2020 primary, I caused the election of an old candidate in the 2024 general election? Remind me to ask you about any other butterfly effects I should be wary of. Should I have toast or a muffin for breakfast tomorrow?
Answer the question Muffin Man. How old?
Bernie isn’t mush for brains. He’s old but still sharp as they come
I’ve been saying that since the DNC muscled him out in 2015. Stupid establishment Republicrats.
Bernie, who ran behind Harris in his own state? Yeah, ok buddy.
Harris who was polling behind Yang right before she dropped out…
As impossible and abstract as it seems to realign the Democratic base by shared class interests, it’s still much a more concrete plan than “reduce bigotry in strangers”
Amen. Amen. Tried and failed, twice. Populism is the only way forward. Democrats must become the party of the poor again.
Strange thing to have to say.
Voters are saying “I am going to be homeless and can’t even afford bread”. The Democrat response to this is “stop being racist, the economy is fine”.
I’m really not sure what anyone expected besides failure from this.
It sucks because some of the agencies were doing good work, especially the mounting attacks on landlords and monopolists/oligopolists, which are necessary but will almost certainly end now. Honestly it felt like they wanted to lose, having learned nothing from 2016.
True to the core
The Dems have been putting workers first under Biden the whole time. Putting workers first more than any administration in decades. You guys just believe a bunch of bad press.
He literally broke up a union strike.
You mean the railroad workers? Did you stick around to listen to the end of the story? Where scant weeks afterward, his administration negotiated a contract for the workers that gave them more paid sick days than they were asking for.
Are you kidding? Is that really an event you think proves your point? Please tell me you will read further on in that event than whoever sold you a partial story and fooled you into thinking that.
Palestine Ohio.
They can do better. The biggest issue was messaging though. They talked about how much better the economy is now, which is true if you’re talking about stock value but the average American wasn’t necessarily doing better, and often doing worse. They kept telling the working class they should be happy instead of focusing on how they recognize the issues and focusing on addressing them.
Harris did… exactly that. That was a huge part of her messaging.
The GOP controls the storylines that the media runs along: “Kamala just isn’t being specific about her policies” when she was robustly specific, and while Trump said absolutely zero specifics about anything and no one said a word about it.
No, she entertained the concept while also saying the economy is doing super well, which it isn’t if your definition focused on the working class doing well. I agree she had some good policies, but that doesn’t matter if you can’t get the message out.
Trump said he would fix issues for the working class (with magic or something I guess, because the few policies he was willing to state certainly wouldn’t).
It doesn’t matter how much you would have helped people if they don’t believe it.
They did help people, and did it about as much as the government could. Almost 16m jobs created, 6m more than pre-pandemic.
The issue was inflation, but that was global, and the US did better than most of the rest of the industrialized world in that regard. It is a complicated truth vs simple lies: you figure out how to get Americans to listen to the one and not the other.
I agree, but it isn’t my job to figure out how to get people to listen. That’s politics. There are trusted people by the working class on the democratic (more left, but they caucus with the democrats) side. Harris was not this, nor was Biden. They are both establishment politicians. That’s not what the people want right now and the Democrats new this but they thought they could win anyway.
He always would have. He knows how to get the people motivated and straight up fucking torqued. He hits every nail when it comes to social or economic problems. On top of it all, he’s so passionate about it he’ll argue until he’s red in the face for us. Honestly fuck everyone who worked to move that man out of the way.
And yet, he lost.
Bernie bros whinge so much about how unfair such and such was to Bernie. Do you think Trump’s campaign would have been less fair?
Also do you forget Russia was supporting Bernie because they wanted him as a spoiler, and yet you all sit here and continue to divide rather than support people who are damn close to your own values. It’s insane.
Bernie lost the primaries when the DNC pushed a bunch of people out of the primary and have them endorse Hillary in a night time maneuver right before the deciding states primary elections.
…and they did this because they’d agreed not to do superdelegates in 2020 which meant they couldn’t use the same levers they’d been wielding in 2016 and before to put a thumb on the scale.
I love Bernie. I know he would have beat Trump in 2016. Both tap into populist sentiment, albeit on different sides of the political spectrum. The difference is Bernie wouldn’t have any of the baggage that Trump brings with the racism, misogyny, incoherence, etc. he would have won easily. I weep for what would have been. He would have been a champion for the working class, not the charlatan that Trump is.
I think one thing that the Republicans did that Dems didn’t is they let the people pick their candidate. It’s that simple. They didn’t care how unpolished he was, his lack of pedigree, anything. There was no ideological purity test. They duked it out in their primary and let the people decide. Something for the Dems to learn from.
The primaries that the winning candidate refused to participate in? Check your fairness a little closer.
The turd has been given special treatment at every turn.
Fair. I forgot about that
