Summary
Former CIA Director Leon Panetta warned that Trump’s return to the White House could embolden Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, giving him a “blank check” in the Middle East and increasing the risk of war with Iran.
Panetta expressed concern that Trump would support Netanyahu’s aggressive stance against Iran without restraint, potentially worsening regional instability.
Panetta also predicted Trump might allow Russia to retain parts of Ukraine if he returns to office, though he doubted Trump’s negotiation skills.
He criticized Trump’s approach to foreign policy, suggesting Trump would be inclined to “capitulate” to authoritarian leaders, which may not sit well with some Republicans.
I would hedge my bets for now. Alternative scenario: The Saudis throw another party for Trump, make some business deals in exchange for reigning in Israel. The House of Al Saud of course doesn’t care about Palestinians but their people do and a party and some business is a low price to pay to be celebrated by your subjects.
When it comes to Russia, Trump may realise that Putin way overplayed his hand, but that’s balanced by animosity towards Zelensky. OTOH, I mean, business deals. Don’t underestimate Ukraine when it comes to being smooth operators. They can sell NASA/SpaceX rocket engines made from Russian war reparations titanium.
Thing is: Trump is highly neurotic and thus, while not necessarily predictable, highly manipulatable if you know what you’re doing. Only have to blow the right smoke up his ass.
Since we’re doing copium, my hope for Ukraine is that the industrial-millitary complex wants to keep sending weapons there, so it will find a way.
Just have to be the last one to blow any smoke up there.
I would hedge my bets for now. Alternative scenario: The Saudis throw another party for Trump, make some business deals in exchange for reigning in Israel. The House of Al Saud of course doesn’t care about Palestinians but their people do and a party and some business is a low price to pay to be celebrated by your subjects.
Blech… this honestly seems more likely to me now, plus it can be used as propaganda to “prove” that he did something about genocide, to keep people voting red…
Here’s the other side that was “just as bad.”
How would that be different than the current plan under Biden?
Someone I can work with and eventually break? Or the racist fascist who wants to annihilate the brown people? I guess they’re the same!
-idiot Americans
Ahh. The old ‘push Biden left’ strategy. Didn’t seem to work very well, considering Biden is helping commit a genocide as we speak.
I remember even when Biden was VP I kept reminding people what a horrible person he is. How he’s one of the biggest proponents of the murderous, racist drug war, and the police militarization that came with it. Biden has blood on his hands. And when I would criticize him then and when I said he was a terrible candidate, you guys downvoted me and called me a right winger, because I was not “left enough”, nobody ever is anymore for you guys. You’re authoritarian hard left and you refuse allies and friends, you want everyone to follow your view to the letter or they’re a “Nazi” even if it’s a white leftist calling a person of color a Nazi. You guys are insane.
As a brown American?
Go fuck yourself.
You hold random people online more accountable than the politicians you support. Peak bootlicking behavior.
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America first
May the people in this sub who screeched Genocide Joe and threatened Kamala over her continued support for Israel get the policies they voted for.
But at least they got join MAGA to own the libs.
I really hope we get the policies of Cornel West. That would be totally awesome. It’s why I voted for dude.
Instead we’re getting a continuation of Genocide Joe.
Yep, you are getting what you voted for…
Next time just vote Trump, save yourself the extra steps.
We told you it was a losing issue. You called us Russian bots and tankies and trumpists because that was easier than listening to something you didn’t want to hear.
I voted for Harris. But that doesn’t mean I’m blind to the suicidal boneheadedness of the pro-genocide centrist wing of the Democratic Party. We tried to warn you. You thought you knew better. In your overwhelming and unearned arrogance, you concluded that anyone that was willing to read the writing on the wall couldn’t possibly be an actual person with agency.
Now go hug Dick Cheney. He’s the only vote any of you cared about.
If the anti-genocide left were too insignificant to treat like humans, they’re too insignificant to blame. Centrists ran the campaign they wanted. Their instincts were and remain shit.
crazy to think that trump might do exactly what he said he was going to do. how could we, the voters, have predicted this?
I never imagined the face-eating leopards would eat my face!
–moron lefties
This is exactly what I was saying months ago. And it’s absolutely going to happen now. The entire region is going to plunge into chaotic war, and Putin couldn’t be happier.
He criticized Trump’s approach to foreign policy, suggesting Trump would be inclined to “capitulate” to authoritarian leaders, which may not sit well with some Republicans.
Don’t they even know who they picked to represent them?
No no guys, Harris was the one that supports the Palestinian genocide, not Trump!
Fucking idiot tankies.
Bud, they both support it. The difference is that Republicans don’t pretend to care about stuff like this.
No, the difference is the extent of which they will enable genocide. And I’m not just taking about Gaza.
It’s a massive fucking difference.
What limits are being imposed on them currently? They’re already flattening Gaza, attacking UN outposts, and invading other countries and this is all with our warplanes, bombs and tax dollars.
And these fuckin morons will still say there was no wars under Trump
Somehow the same people who thought they could make the argument of “neither party will stop what is happening in Gaza, so vote based on other issues” don’t think israel already had a blank check. Now these same people are gloating as if the people of Gaza deserve to be genocided because the democrats didn’t win. It’s sick and it’s illustrative of what’s wrong with the “democratic” party.
Fucking DUH, god damn.
Trump voters: “Trump is the most peaceful president ever. We need to bring the defence spending to Ukraine home. America first”.
Trump is elected and inevitably drags the US into yet another war in in the Middle East
Trump voters: Pikachu face
Nah. Just kidding about that last part. It was all just empty rhetoric to justify the grift and looting all the way down as the country burns to the ground in the background.
Don’t forget that if we pull funding from Ukraine, the proxy war with Russia will potentially morph into the most peaceful war between Russia and our allies.
Nothing yet happened but you’re already crying like it did.
Believe it or not, he’ll probably cut subsidies to Israel, get a peace deal in Ukraine (yeah, by giving his buddy Putin parts of the country), and he surely won’t start any war with iran.
And all you’ll be able to do is continue fuming on the internet while being factually wrong. And in the end it won’t be a surprise to really anyone but you that your party will lose electrons over and over.
If they’re losing so many electrons, they must be pretty positive by now.
Trump is very isolationist. I’d be quite surprised if he committed to any conflict directly. Funding Israel to fight for him however…
I find it odd when someone says Trump is this or Trump is that as if he’s consistent on anything. His absurd narcissism is the only consistent thing about him. You can bet your ass he would drag us into a war if it would stroke his ego in some way.
That is what makes him so uniquely dangerous. He has no ideology to speak of. His focus shifts back and forth so often that trying to predict exactly what he’s going to do is impossible. You can say with certainty that he won’t be motivated by any sort of desire for the public good but that’s about as specific as you can get until he starts doing something.
Seriously, it’s amazing that more people don’t understand that Trump does only what Trump thinks will benefit Trump, even if it’s just benefiting the ego.
You criticize my statement about what Trump is for being too absolute and then make your own.
He had 4 years in office and didn’t deploy troops anywhere. The evidence supports my hypothesis so far.
Congratulations, idealists. You definitely stopped the genocide by refusing to vote for Harris and urging others to do likewise. A+ job.
I truly cannot grasp how uninformed one has to be to claim to be for Palestinians but think helping Trump’s odds was strategically better. Such profound ignorance is on par with maga, themselves.
On another note I want absolutely nothing to do with Mehdi Hasan. I supported him for quite some time but he got tunnel vision to such a degree he ended up thinking completely irrationally and contributing to the problem. He’s venturing into Jill Stein territory for me.
thats okay, you just need to look at harris and the dnc for your answers. apparently streams of articles, local representatives speaking up, members of the diplomatic core speaking out and they amazing decided that ‘yes, genocide is the answer to our electoral struggles’
it is definitely baffling in a tight race tossing 25 electoral points in the trash could be construed as a ‘good decision for palestinians.’ but here we are and thats what they did.
Now the world is going to suffer because of their hubris. enjoy. maybe next time tell your candidate to get a backbone to do the right thing and you need to grasp human nature.
go check out democracynow gaza section. maybe you can get some perspective on exactly how kamala/biden and general media have been gaslighting you. Everytime a hamas leader was murdered and harris would say ‘now we can achieve a ceasefire’ she was gaslighting you. a ceasefire with the release of hostages had been agreed to by hamas for months since may. Every time she said she would work towards a ceasefire, she was gaslighting you.
the palestinians were fucked no matter who won.
But harris had the option to potentially win if she was willing to:
- throw biden under the bus policy wise.
- commit to upholding american laws w/ respect to isreal.
- commit to keeping kahn as head of FTC.
- commit and campaign on actually fighting corporations.
but noooo. its the voters fault for harris being absolutely dog shit both morally and policy wise.
Binary choice.
Either Trump or Harris would win.
Harris better on literally every issue from climate change and LGBTQ+ rights and Women’s rights, to Ukraine and yes even marginally Gaza, itself.
We had a choice to help one or the other, and we chose the guy who is worse on every one of these issues. The GOP and Putin thank you for your service.
At the end of the day, these uncommitted voters contributed to the problem because they lacked the capacity to think strategically in their voting and lacking comprehension of the FPTP voting system we have. They seem to lack the fundamental understanding that there was a competing electoral group that Harris needed to obtain, like the large Jewish community in these key battleground states like Pennsylvania. Damned if she did; damned if she didn’t.
Golly, it’s almost like there’s a reason why Musk dumped $75 million dollars in attack ads with directly opposite messages, targeting both Muslim and Jewish communities in Pennsylvania at the same time? Were you aware of this? Evidently not.
So while Harris pushed for more aid into Gaza, sought a two-state solution, sought a permanent ceasefire, tell me… What did Trump promise? Oh yeah… “Finish the job.” Again, good luck.
No, I’m about 10 years ahead of you with the Democracy Now and 3rd party crap. I’ve been down that road long ago, my friend. Hopefully one day you’ll wise up, too.
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Your argument — hiding behind a counter-factual impossible to prove — is an old one. Cap it off with a Post Hoc fallacy, why don’t ya?
Educate yourself on the basic fallacies, and perhaps you’ll gain the prerequisite critical-thinking skills to have a good faith discussion.
(But boy, Palestinians are going to be ever so grateful for the uncommitted vote for the next 4+ years, LOL)
“They” weren’t persons holding “real” opinions, I’m afraid. Just as the russians calling for “russophobia” 2 months prior to the special genocidal operation
I’m expecting mega stupid bullshit like Trump lifting sanctions in exchange for Russia standing down so Trump can send American planes over and show the world we have the biggest and best bombs, while his megadonors line up for Russian contracts and celebrate
Yep the Dems are accountable for nothing, but peaple who refused to vote for genociders are accountable for Trump’s action sure. Keep blindly following your party.
Maybe there’s plenty of accountability to go around and you deserve some too.
Also, please tell me which party is my party. I would like to know which political party I am registered with, please. With evidence, of course. Unless you’re trolling a moderator.
I am accountable for what ? For what the new president might do (when i clearly didn’t vote for him). You re litteraly criticising peaple for not voting Harris, stop the Whataboutisme. “Unless you’re trolling a moderator” LOL
You re litteraly criticising peaple for not voting Harris
Exactly.
Now you have one more chance to tell me what political party I am registered with and I expect evidence. Trolling is not allowed here.
The alternative is to admit you don’t actually know and just assumed I was a member of the Democratic party. Then you were just being uncivil, but I will let that go.
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What specifically did I do? Please lay it out with evidence.
Or is this more trolling?
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Oh he’ll help end the genocide alright. You can’t genocide a people that’s already wiped off the planet.
ukraine is gonna get ‘helped’ similarly. putin will have a free pass once the u.s. aid stops. i don’t think the other nato countries or the e.u. can cover that, especially long-term.
Y’all are thinking pretty small, Putin won’t just have a free pass about us aid, Putin has a pass to our entire structure. Their military might be shit but their Intel apparatus is not at all.
I hope as soon as US aid stops, they launch everything they have at major Russian cities.
right? they’re holding back for conditional western aid. as soon as the aid ends those conditions mean nothing.
Why would this be different from right now? If they could feasibly end the war they way, they absolutely would, and id absolutely condone it.
Because as far as I know Ukrain hasn’t been committing war crimes with western supplied arms.
I’ve always said they could ignore all conditions by saying there’s Hamas tunnels under the Kremlin.
I’m pretty sure it’s the most documented war of all time by now, we’d know. The Israeli war is much younger and it was readily apparent when the war crimes started. I’m pretty sure that’s why a lot of countries like to go dark from the internet when they kick up their bullshit.
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I think the EU will change. If Ukraine falls, territory grabs from Poland, Finland and Hungary are next. Those are actually EU constituents.
Hungary will not leave the EU btw. Orbán’s days are numbered, what with the Tisza overflowing.
yeah shame that. maybe kamala should of thought about that before committing herself to a genocide joe allowed.
Okay my man look at the margins. The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan. And the thing is: Harris lost before Michigan even finished counting. So yeah, you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan.
See, if you’d said the anti-genocide people who protest voted could’ve all voted for Harris, you might’ve had a point.
But turnout in this election for the Democratic candidate was significantly decreased, and an uncertain number of those were anti-genocide.
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
This is one of the excuses they are giving rather than accept any culpability whatsoever. “Even if we voted for Harris, Trump would still have won.”
Culpability for what? Nothing is forcing Biden and Harris to support such atrocities. Nothing forced them to abandon the left and the working class and cater to the right at every opportunity. If you want to point fingers, why don’t you start with the actual candidate leading the campaign, who consciously made all these decisions, and the party leaders backing her?
Was 2016 not enough of a wakeup call? Was the near loss in 2020 not a wakeup call? Here we are in 2024, repeating the same old song and dance, and people are still digging their heels in thinking that moving further and further right is a winning strategy for the Democrats and it’s everyone else’s fault when it doesn’t work again and again and again.
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028 and then wonder where it all went wrong once again when he loses to someone like Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis.
Culpability for what?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028…
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
I did that? The Supreme Court was already under control of the fascists because the DNC rolled over and allowed the Republicans to take the nomination away from Obama a year before the election. They again rolled over and allowed Trump to nominate yet another justice weeks before the election. In my district we voted in a blue congresswoman and had no senators on the ballot. Are these losses around the rest of the country my fault, too, or the fault of the people running those campaigns?
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
How exactly were you ringing the alarm bells? By telling everyone to vote for Biden and then Harris? By telling everyone the obvious about what a piece of shit Trump is? How did that work out for us?
I’ve been ringing the alarm bells about how terrible the Dems have been performing and all the shitty policy they’ve been supporting (genocide, the rich, the right) and got so much pushback. I’ve been called a shill, a republican in disguise, an idiot, and everything else under the sun and look how things turned out for us. You supported a losing strategy from a party full of neoliberals that doesn’t give two shits about you or anyone else and now you want to point fingers. As I said before, how could it not be more clear after losing or nearly losing this many elections in a row that the DNC and their leadership is the problem?
Culpability for you supporting the atrocities.
That’s right, you. By helping get Trump into office since you and others refused to “vote for genocide,” you have let the guy who told Netanyahu to “finish the job” on national TV to take office. The same guy who is going to start more genocides- of brown and queer people- in the U.S.
That is your fault because you were too ideologically self-righteous to do anything about it.
I don’t want to hear any American voter who didn’t vote for Harris to claim anything about being anti-genocide. Because it’s a fucking lie. You can lie to yourself all you want, but if you lie about that to me, I’m calling you out.
And in the same breath, they’ll say it’s the Dems fault for supporting genocide.
“Or votes wouldn’t have made a difference in the outcome, but Dems lost because they didn’t do the thing that would have supposedly gotten our vote”
Yep.
That’s exactly what’s happening.
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Because you’re being intentionally dense. their personal votes are what they are talking about. These are the people who fucking showed up and voted regardless of the shit campaign.
The genocide definitely cost harris Wisconsin and Michigan. 25 points right there.
For example: My state harris won, my vote third party jill, would have in no way changed the outcome here. As I’ve been informing everyone for two months. But harris is missing 20 million votes biden received. Where are they?
Why did these individuals not vote for harris?
maybe because shes been gaslighting america on live tv for years during the biden admin? Over biden’s mental acuity, over what was going on in gaza etc.
Maybe because she didn’t put forward a single decent economic policy to counter the absolutely shit perception of the biden admin?
Maybe, just maybe, people were so disgusted with her continued support of a genocide they fucking stayed home instead of voting for a gaslighting trash heap of a campaign?
You dweebs like to crow about the electorate having short memories. but the reality is that they actually have long memories and you can’t do the shit biden and harris have done and expect people to show up for you without a huge fucking carrot.
And you wouldn’t even contemplate that ‘hey the arabs just want us to stop murdering their friends and family. huh. maybe we should do that?’
So yes, continue thinking those like myself are at fault. I’m fine with your scorn. I don’t particularly care if you dislike me. Just remember that your support for a genocide just cost you multiple election cycles in Michigan and Wisconsin. THAT community is unlikely to forget what you, biden, harris, and the DNC did to them.
Now if anyone wants resources to look into anything I’ve said here and are open to working towards replacing the DNC feel free to reach out. always happy to connect with people who actually give a shit.
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
Yes, and I’m saying that Gaza wasn’t an issue for enough people to matter. Harris needed Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to win, and while I can see pro-Palestinian votes swinging Michigan I simply doubt there were enough of them in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to matter. If you think otherwise, then you have more faith in the American people than me I guess.
This not to mention down-ballot congressional races.
Gave them everything they fucking wanted. This country is cooked.
The fact that the person representing the choice to act is also giving a WTF, dude face is hilarious.
The outcome of the election doesn’t change the fact that 18% of voters wasted their vote on a Russian plant.
In the end it didn’t matter but it does matter that they knew the election was close and their protest vote could’ve very well been the deciding factor. They decided to make the statement despite the risk of having someone much worse winning. Now, go plead your cause to Trump.
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Please give me the numbers of these in every swing state along with how they were determined.
Michigan and Wisconsin, two states representing 25 pts. If you don’t look at the fucking margins in a neck and neck race, yeah you fucking lose. Harris failed to make any changes to policy throughout the campaign despite being underwater the entire fucking time.
This loss is entirely on her and the DNC.
There is no way for you, or anyone, to know how many people abstained from voting over any one issue, 🤡
I totally understand that sentiment, being myself someone who voted for Harris as the better candidate, but I think the results show it wasn’t abstaining anti-genocide voters who caused her shortfall. Millions of people who voted blue in 2020 didn’t vote or in many cases actually voted red on Tuesday, way more than the few pro-Palestine abstainers likely amount to. And I doubt many ppl who care about Palestine would’ve switched and voted for Trump.
As much as I’d love a simple, singular group to blame for Tuesday’s horrible result, it’s way too early and multifaceted of an issue to do so imo. Depressingly, I think it’s moreso just uninformed voters who thought that since inflation wasn’t as bad from 2016-2019 that Trump would be better for consumer prices, and they didn’t really think about it any harder than that.
You misunderstand. I’m blaming everyone who didn’t vote for whatever reason. It was Israel for a large number of them and this story involves that, so I am pointing the finger at them in this case.
But I don’t care why someone didn’t vote. They chose to accept the possibility that they would be helping a fascist, genocidal dictator get into office by doing nothing to oppose him. Whatever reason they had was a bad one.
Oh gotcha yep totally agree
Then he will be held to the same account Harris was.
Tell us you don’t know what a VP does without telling us you don’t know what a VP does.
What are you even talking about? Harris is the Vice President. Exactly what do you think her job responsibilities and powers are?
She said she would not have changed a single decision that was made during the Biden administration. Biden said that she was in 100% agreement with every decision made. Which means she agreed to the current conditions
Dude, you really need to just move on from Biden and Kamala. They lost and aren’t going to be in office much longer. Trump is the threat.
And once he takes office, he will get the same type of scrutiny from me that Biden and Harris has. until January 20th the focus is on Biden and Harris.
I really hope you find solace in the idea that Harris and Trump would be equally bad for the world as Trump throws America into the garbage and tries to take the planet with it.
Do you have any idea how much CO2 biden’s proxy wars have dumped into the atmosphere? How many chip manufacturers were given environmental exemptions for chip manufacturing? The actions from Democrats mirror the actions from Republicans. The only difference is that Republicans say all of those things out loud
Again, I hope you find solace in the idea that Trump and Harris are exactly the same when things get really awful. I’m sure you’ll feel much better about yourself not voting for her.
Block him, Squid. He’s doing this in every thread and you need to put this energy towards more important things.
I find solace in not allowing the continued rightward march of Democrats. Liberals are 100% to blame for our current conditions for never holding their own people accountable. At their current pace the DNC will be on par with people like McConnell in a few years.
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Stoppig the genocide… Who started it?
Israel. What’s your point?
Cool so Trump won’t be responsible for stopping the genocide either. Everything falls on Israel.
No shit. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
Why did you bring up the genocide if you do not believe the American president has any responsibility for it? Biden has funded 70% of the cost of the genocide.
Gosh I don’t know, maybe because a huge number of people decided to allow in a rapist fascist dictator who is going to conduct his own two genocides domestically, thinking their protest vote or their protest abstention would totally teach the Democrats a lesson regarding Israel?
Have you spent the week in a cave?
What did you do to stop the genocide?
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We didn’t allow anything. harris failed to win our votes. direct your ire correctly. I’ve been telling you this for 2 months. you’re still failing at basic reasoning on how voting works.
Palestinians are dead either way unless harris committed to stopping israel. and she wouldn’t. she threw out the 25 electoral points Michigian and Wisconsin represent as a result. She failed to run a campaign on policies that would win her the election.
We don’t owe you dweebs anything. You repeatedly fail to realize that people won’t help you when you don’t help them. and the DNC hasn’t done shit for the working class or the arab community and they just fucking burnt a bridge that’ll likely be impossible to rebuild.
You want peoples support for ukraine, LGBT, etc? learn you need to build connections with others to get support. esp when you’re pet projects are also minority groups.
And a reminder: your jews for peace work is completely ineffectual when it comes to the president/congress supplying arms to israel. most of your work has ridden on the coattails of arab groups pushing their initiatives. So while stopping the settlement funding is a grand idea; by the time you managed to do it the palestinians would have already been dead or gone.
Fairly certain the economy was the number one issue for voters that switched parties. I have not seen the numbers on how the genocide affected voting outcomes, but the blame rests squarely on Kamala’s shoulders for running a shitty campaign.
Voters don’t owe the politicians anything.
Voters owe themselves something. But instead they decided to crash the economy, end democracy and start more genocides. Because Kamala ran a shitty campaign.
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I love this idea that it’s all one person’s fault. I’m sure you’ll still blame her when Trump’s cops march you into a boxcar.
“It’s not my fault, I didn’t vote for Harris and allowed the U.S. to get taken over by a fascist dictator who is committing genocides. It’s her fault for making me not vote for her because of genocide!” Scream it to the guards, I’m sure they’ll be very sympathetic.
Of course, you could be a cishet Christian man, in which case, enjoy your privilege.
in which case, enjoy your privilege
…for now
I should have added ‘rich.’
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Please read my post before you reply.
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