They could go one step further and add braille support directly, it’s just nudges. Tactile feeling is the only reason they are back.
Yes, I’m aware there are no blind drivers. The point is not having to look at your controls and doing so with something that already exists.
Braille isn’t very good for quick discernment. It’s much easier to put differently-shaped buttons together or put buttons into different places.
Why not both? And blind people don’t seem to think so. Either way, better than what’s in the picture.
Out of curiosity, have you actually spoken to blind people about how useful they find Braille?
Feeling for a 2cm x 1.5cm button is way different than trying to read braille.
Now try selecting between each of the buttons 2cm x 1.5cm for a particular button without having to feel the rest or having to glance at it.
Literally just bumps that are even easier to make than the text on the buttons because they are just part of the plastic mold instead of additional paint jobs. Some people are just hostile to any basic improvement.
You do realize that human touch can differentiate between .01mm? It’s why braille works so easily.
Imagine trying to both make the argument that braille is too hard to distinguish and that 0.01mm is easy to differentiate in the same thread.
We’re talking about something most people’s minds are not used to interpreting, so I fear that this would just add a layer of mental load for most drivers that would be actually less safe.
… Feel free to speak for yourself …
You think most people are reading things with their fingertips?
Hard disagree. Touch screens are more intuitive, can be updated to be made better, have the option for more controls, and don’t take any more time with your eyes off the road.
Well with a touch screen you have to look at what you’re doing.
With physical buttons, you don’t have to since they have a shape.
Are you looking at your keyboard while typing on your computer? Now try not looking while typing on your phone 🤓
I have to look when adjusting physical buttons in my car, same as I have to look when adjusting things on the touch screen in my car. And I don’t have to look at my phone keyboard while typing.
Do you have problems with object permanence in everyday life? or just in your car?
Interesting that you would say someone like that when the options on a screen are in the same place, too.
Why even type this out?
Do you just like arguing stupid points for fun even when you know yourself that you are wrong?
Have you never seen an automotive touchscreen before?
Even within one model/brand there are a ton of panes, and layouts. And even when you choose one layout, which apps are open changes the location and size of the buttons. Now add into that multiple brands, models, layout, and years… And your comment gets more worthless at every step.
Beyond that. The screen doesn’t use haptic feedback to tell you where your fingers are so that the parts of your brain that evolved to handle that kind of context can use it without your fucking eyes. ‘Oh I touched the round thing, I know there are 4 rectangles next to this’ is a built-in feedback loop that a touchscreen does not provide at this time.
When you’re fumbling to find the right switch/knob by feel your focus is still not on driving. It is at best very marginally better, and probably worse because you now think you’re still paying attention to driving even though you really aren’t. It’s still illegal to text while driving, even on an old phone with a physical keyboard, specifically for this reason.
You can’t compare turning the volume control knob in your car to writing an SMS on an old keyboard phone
Volume control is also accessible from the steering wheel on pretty much any car produced within the last 15 years, and certainly any with a touch screen. I’m not comparing to steering wheel controls.
I’m comparing it to fiddling with AC settings on a centre console like everyone seems to me mentioning in this post.
One, the volume knob is far quicker to respond than the usual ‘up/down’ slow volume adjustment on the wheel. The turn down the overly loud sound from the last driver immediately is nicer with a volume knob.
But with my car with hard A/C controls, I just reach down to the little ‘up/down’ toggle and tug it down a bit if I feel a little warm or bump it up a little if I feel too cold, or hit the big old button if I need to toggle it off to talk on speaker.
There are a fairly well known set of very common controls that will never be better and need an update. Coarse A/C adjustments, vent direction volume, and next-track are all no-brainers (unless you are Tesla…)
For example, here’s a layout that obviously has room and depends on touch for a lot of features, but preserves a reasonably sane set of audio and climate controls (and four miscellaneous functions)
With that you don’t look, you know pretty much immediately for the functions you would use.
There’s still plenty of room for touch/voice controls for those more nuanced/complicated things that don’t fit into button land well. Entering a navigation destination, managing any software updates, setting parameters like "should the car adjust cruise control based on speed limit signs, and if so, what adjustment to the limit should be applied?’
and don’t take any more time with your eyes off the road.
Physical controls generally don’t have to be looked at at all to reach common controls.
and don’t take any more time with your eyes off the road.
Uh, yes, yes they do. Which is why buttons are superior there. It’s all about usecase. Keep your touchscreen for things like the navi settings.
Fucking finally.
Now make cars look like cars again. Last 30 years has been a parade of Jellybeans and Electric Shavers.
What I care more about is making cars… cars. Visit a dealership in the US and it’s 98% SUV/Truck and 2% sedans.
I just want cheap economy shitboxes back. User serviceable ones. Without an extra half ton of plastic and unnecessary electronics. Bring back wind up windows and normal radios. Vinyl seats. Hell, bench seats. Wind up windows.
The lowest tech car I could find was the Mitsubishi Mirage G4, and they told me it’s being discontinued this year! I think that leaves the Nissan Versa as the only subcompact entry-level vehicle on the market.
Which is beyond insane. People are broke.
I just got a leaf
My old early 2000s Ford focus that had manual windows and locks died a few years ago. I miss that car, but towards the end every door handle broke and only the back passenger door opened from the outside… which means I always I had to leave a window down(no key hole on that door) or climb through the trunk.
Unfortunately Ford decided to make car doors using a tiny piece of plastic that holds the wire that moves when you pull the handle. When that breaks the handle goes limp and does nothing. But you can’t just replace that piece of plastic… nope. You have to buy a whole new internal mechanism.
Like i said that car died finally, but I’m still salty about the doors. Those broke one at a time about 5-10 years before the engine went. Anyway, sorry about the rant. I loved my not electric windows and doors, but never expected that issue with it down the road.
Can confirm, I used to daily an 07 focus and it went through door handles like tires
Most “SUVs” are actually crossovers. Which are just hatchbacks, wagons, and non-sliding door minivans. Take an Impreza hatchback and lift it 3 inches, and suddenly it’s an “SUV.”
But yeah, sedans w/trunks are becoming a bit of a rarity.
Yeah, Subaru is getting rid of the Legacy sedan in 2025 and keeping the Impreza hatchback because the Impreza shares parts with their larger SUVs. The Legacy doesn’t, so it makes them more money to get rid of the car.
Modern cars are designed in wind tunnels. We’ll never get the cool designs back.
We still have Hummers. Aerodynamics isn’t everything.
True, but those look like shit, lol
We had efficiency answered decades ago during the 70s fuel shortage. Big oil didn’t want to normalize cars like the Vega, Moodymobile, VW Rabbit, later the Geo Metro. They wanted us to burn more oil not less. And that hasn’t changed. Cars don’t need to be designed in wind tunnels.
Regulations on fossil fuels have become very strict in Europe and any manufacturer wanting to sell there is going to maximize aerodynamics. Not to mention the increased range for electric cars. Most people still view cars as utilities, they care more about how far it can go on one charge instead of cool angular designs.
I’m so glad I kept my car and weathered through this shitty phase of car manufacturing.
If only there was hope for weathering through the data collection, subscription-based features and the death of sedans though…
Get any Infiniti with a 3g antenna. The network doesn’t exist anymore so it can’t phone home.
Well, there are some strategies:
- data collection - remove/disable the antenna/broadcasting chip - in some cars it’s as easy as removing a fuse, in others you need to take things apart to remove the TCU or modem
- subscription-based features - don’t buy them and look for hacks to enabled them w/o buying
- death of sedans - buy sedans
Unfortunately, that’s a drop in the bucket since it seems the market in general wants larger cars with more spyware, and aren’t pushing back enough on subscription BS.
I’m actively looking for a car, and unfortunately the process is:
- find models we want to try out
- look up online about how to disable the spyware nonsense
- actually go look at cars
- repeat from 1 as necessary
- play dealership games because the private used market is essentially gone
- actually remove spyware
We’re on step 3, and I’m not looking forward to step 5. I’ve actually never purchased from a dealer before, because I’ve bought everything before now from a private seller. Wish me luck…
Can I suggest auction sites for used cars. Government is always getting rid of old cars.
I’ll have to check those out, I keep forgetting all about them. We don’t urgently need a new car, so that’s probably a good idea.
I asked a dealer for a dumb-car. No fucking auto 911 dialing, bluetooth enabled, GPS service horseshit, just a normal car and he shot me
I think you want a 2007 Toyota Corolla lol
I’ve currently got a 2012 Mazda 3 but swapped the radio for one that supports Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. No other fancy features.
I hope that Mazda isn’t a diesel one.
We’re looking for a new car, but unfortunately there’s nothing between “sedan” and “minivan” that we want. We have three kids and a minivan, and we hardly use the extra seats or storage. It’s still working fine (it’s a mid-2000s Sienna), but my wife and I hate driving it, it has terrible gas mileage (20-ish MPG), we don’t need the space 99% of the time, and we never need the storage space and people space simultaneously.
What I want is:
- AWD
- >30mpg, ideally 35+
- flip-up third row (will be used like 1-2x/year, if that)
- >30 cubic feet storage w/ third row unused (Prius is super close)
- as small as possible
- if I have to get an SUV, at least 1500lbs towing capacity (prefer >3000lbs)
If they still made them, a station wagon would absolutely fit the bill. But now, I can’t have that, so I’m stuck in SUV-land.
So my plan is to completely abandon the third row and get a compact hybrid SUV. If we buy new, it’ll be a Rav4 hybrid (the CR-V hybrid has a dinky 1000 lbs towing capacity, and if I have to get an SUV, I want the option). If we buy used, it’ll probably be a Ford Escape hybrid, not because it’s good, but because it’s cheap and good enough (Escape and Rav4 can both do 1500lbs towing). I don’t want either, but since there’s pretty much nothing in the sedan w/ storage space market (and I want more than suitcase storage, we camp quite a bit), I’m essentially being forced to get an SUV.
I hate SUVs, but I guess that’s what we’re getting. I’ll probably get an EV for the second car (currently a Prius), if only for the convenience of never having to fill up gas again.
Toyota RAV4 is nice. Especially the hybrid
Edit: never mind you mentioned that
Yup, they’re just a bit hard to get ATM because they’re super popular, so I’m not going to be able to haggle much to get a better deal. Used Rav4s go for the same if not more than new Rav4s.
The Ford Escape, however, is pretty decent and a lot more available than the Rav4, so I can probably get a decent discount. There are several 3-4yo Ford Escapes at $10-15k less than new that look interesting in my area.
That said, neither the Rav4 or the Ford Escape has an option for a third row/jump seats, which sucks.
I really just want a station wagon…
It might be too large for your use case, but have you looked at the Kia EV9? The EV6 might be worth looking at too.
EV won’t work because we do road trips quite a bit, charging infrastructure in the US sucks, and range would suck in the winter. If I’m going to get an EV, I’d need about double that range for a family car since we regularly go about 300-400 miles between charges, and often 800 miles in a day (takes about 13-14 hours driving). An EV would add a day to those trips, as well as require longer stops.
I’m planning on getting an EV for my commuter (only need about 150-200 miles of range), but not for our family car until range improves significantly.
and often 800 miles in a day (takes about 13-14 hours driving)
Oh wow. After my last trip that was supposed to take like 9 hours and ended up more like 12, I decided to never do that to myself ever again. But I guess if you have multiple drivers that can share the burden, such along day on the road is still an option.
Eh, I usually drive the whole way because I often get carsick if someone else drives, though my SO is there if I need a break. I grew up doing that, and started driving most (if not all) of the way as young as 16, so I’m used to it. We’re pretty efficient at it (get gas and go to the bathroom, then get back driving), and my kids basically just read, watch videos, or play video games in the backseat.
It’s a lot cheaper than flying and honestly less stressful than flying (no TSA, listening for boarding call, etc) and we don’t need to rent a car at the destination, though it takes a lot longer.
We’ll also do “shorter” trips at like 200-400 miles (i.e. visit nearby state and national parks), and an EV with 200-300 miles range would make that annoying (we’d have to recharge just before getting there). And the charging infrastructure to those places is spotty at best. An EV would be totally fine for around town driving, but not for road trips, so I either need <200 miles range, or >400.
Makes sense.
My wife and I don’t commute very far so an EV is fine for us even if we can only charge it with 120V initially (until we install a proper charger in our garage). We’ve got a BMW iX on order.
Tesla is opening superchargers to all brands eventually. That’ll help a lot, as will the inevitable changes that’ll happen to gas stations where they replace some pumps with EV chargers.
Range is definitely an issue, but it’s improving over time. 10 years ago, the average EV range was around 100 miles. I know BMW have tested a prototype car with ~600 mile range, and that tech should hopefully come with their Neue Klasse vehicles some time in 2026/2027. The Lucid Air gets around 500 miles range. Our current gas car (2012 Mazda 3) only gets around 360 miles until the gas light comes on, so it’s not actually that different for us.
Yeah, we’re right in that awkward window where EVs are almost good enough to replace the family car, but not quite.
We can usually get 400 miles out of our minivan, and filling up gas only takes a couple minutes. We usually pack lunches and whatnot for these road trips, so there’s really no reason to stop any longer than that. I guess it’s nice to stretch our legs or whatever, but we’d really rather just get to our destination and relax there.
With an EV, we’d probably get about 250 miles range since highway speeds are about 70-80mph in my area (probably a little less since fast charges aren’t everywhere), and then 20-30 min waiting to charge. For a typical 700-800 mile trip, that’s 3-4 stops, so if it’s 30 min each time, it would add 2 hours to the trip.
If we could get 400-500 miles range, we could recharge once, which is totally reasonable. But we’re not there yet, so we’re looking at hybrids for the family car and an EV for around town driving.
Touch screens are shit tor buttons. They can be hacked. They can be unresponsive.
There’s a load of other reasons, but either or both are enough to realise that a physical button is much safer. Perfect example of safety being lost in technology. Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should.
I didn’t have a car for a few years and the one I had was 2003 (with a slight stint from a similarly-aged car during a couple-month time I had to drive). I now have a car again and I HATE that my heat/air and such are all flat against the panel (not a touch screen, though). I literally can’t adjust anything without looking in my current car. Thankfully, I avoid driving it whenever possible.
Plotnick, an associate professor of cinema and media studies at Indiana University in Bloomington, is the leading expert on buttons and how people interact with them.
I like that being a leading expert on buttons is a profession that exists in this world. You go Rachel Plotnick.
Drivers will see this and say hell yeah
Finally. Are they actually hiring decent UX folks this time or are they using the people who designed 1980s VCR programming UIs again?
did 80s VCRs even have OSD? we went from a top loading National to a hi-fi so basically skipped the 80s. and 90s VRC UX would be perfectly acceptable as far as I’m concerned.
They mostly didn’t have OSDs, they instead had indecipherable 7-segment and some fixed elements like ‘Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa’, with 2 or 3 buttons. The younger Gen-X/older Millennials got their reputation as ‘whiz kids’ in part by handling those interfaces on behalf of their mystified parents.
80s and early 90s designed the best dashboards. Change my mind mf.
You mean like the 1985 Subaru XT Coupe? God I love that cassette futurism look!
Steering wheel looks like a gun which fits since it’ll probably kill you
That is such a strange looking steering wheel.
Some of the most zany quirks and features of any car!
Get outta here, Doug Demuro! Go back to YouTube!
Funny part is it looks sci-fi to me.
This will never not be sci fi to me lol
The retro futurism of the 80’s was the best
I just want to say that I think this is the dash from my old car a Toyota Yaris.
I miss you ole’ buddy. I’m sorry you got rear ended and totaled. You were a great car.
Personally I’m excited for the Hyundai mobi system
No.
Out the way, boomers.
Should be illegal to have touchscreen controls in a car, it requires you to look at it to effectively control it, which means the car forces you to ignore the road to do anything.
Especially EV car makers need to take note.
How about just generic opensource communications via Ethernet rj45? Then you just plug in any screen/computer including raspberry pi so you can have whatever system you want.
Won’t someone please think of the shareholders?!!
Particularly given the trend of ‘glue a tablet to the middle of the dashboard’. If you are going to do that anyway, bring up a modern successor to the DIN/Double DIN standard, where the mounting is standard and update to also include USB-C for standard power, audio, and data. Add some network profiles for standardized exchange of useful information (Car speedometer, car model, fuel/battery amount and efficiency profile, navigation information to drive dash/HUD, etc).
And sarcastically speaking please oh please don’t add functionality to the obd connector like the ability to self diagnose and display a full report for any mechanic to easily use without the need for special hardware. That would be awful to have.
I find it insane that with modern computing and displays, they still just render a vague check engine light despite being able to easily display the specifics.
Ding ding! You got a flat tire dude! You can tell because I’m showing you this symbol “!”
Oh, wanna know which one? Just go outside and check it out buddy! It would be the one that looks flat.
You get all this great information for just $400 bucks! 100 per each tire monitor.
Dude, my goodness! Can they do worse?
That last but is almost NMEA 2000, which standardizes exactly that kind of information, but in boats. It’s old enough that they based it on CANbus, but there are many repeater products to add IP devices (Ethernet, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth) to the network.
ETA: By which I mean to say, plenty of designs already exist in the marine market which could be used to bridge a car’s CANbus to consumer devices, if they wanted to.
