These are not simple differences of opinion. These are fundamental differences about core values.

Agreed

There’s what is stated and what is implied. In the absence of any sort of formal or “official” organization, participants get to choose their own level of involvement.

I often refer to “birthstrike” as a conceptually similar and related group.

The logic is to prevent pregnancy in an environment that has become hostile towards women’s rights. Sex becomes far more dangerous if you don’t have access to contraceptives and abortion.

Fwiw, I’m in a LTR with a “4B ally” (and also consider myself an ally). A key points here is that I’ve also had a vasectomy.

I know it doesn’t seem fair, and if you look at it through the lens of punishing men then maybe it isn’t. But if you view it as women protecting themselves (e.g. from pregnancy) then it makes perfect sense.

So jettison the terf component, it isn’t germane to the overall goal or purpose and need not be carried over just because it is part of the South Korean 4B.

It’s to protect against pregnancy in an environment where women’s rights have been eroded.

If Project 2025 takes away abortion rights and even contraceptives, sex becomes a really big risk.

What a damn farce this is.

My heart sank when I read about this. How?! Were these people in a coma for the last few months?

Yeah, I’ve already seen the name “Gavin Newsom” floated around for 2028.

DNC doesn’t learn.

It was very convenient that the deadline was after the elections.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/12/politics/mike-huckabee-israel/index.html

That last paragraph. Ouch.

Don’t know what to tell you. I’m expressing my opinion on how I personally see them, which is an entity that is openly hostile to the American public.

People voting for them doesn’t negate this. It only means that people vote against their own self-interests, which is nothing new as we’ve seen time and time again.

That doesn’t change my opinion. That alliance is to the U.S. government, not to the U.S. people. I consider them to be a hostile entity.

The failure rate may be considered unacceptably high for some people, hence 4B.

With Israel’s mask off, other nations need to start allowing these protesters so long as they don’t actually turn violent.

We don’t need to pretend that Israel is the “good guys” anymore; they’ve straight-up told us told us that they aren’t.

The birth rate over 30 is probably lower, and putting a deadline forces you into a FOMO situation.

I’ve a heard a similar theory explaining why some (U.S.) Republicans want to ban fertility treatments: FOMO to have kids younger because you might not be able to later.

I personally think this will not work out the way they plan it to, bu there is a twisted train of thought behind it.

Can we finally stop pretending that Israel is an “ally.” I consider the state of Israel to be an enemy to the general American public.

The good news is that since sterilization is a one-time thing, medical tourism (for those with the means) becomes a viable option. I don’t see them banning international travel.

Of course this does increase the barrier and will be out of reach for those who can least afford to have children.

So this is where we are now? All men wanted this? All men voted for this?

It’s not about punishment. It’s about practicality given the circumstances.

I did not vote for this either, but it would be foolish to not acknowledge that sex will become far riskier for women if they do not have access to abortion and contraceptives.

The preceding commenter’s response wasn’t vile or hateful. It was a very matter-of-fact presentation of the situation that we (as a society) are facing.

The American version need not be TERF though. It is not an inherent part of what 4B actually entails and is extraneous to the purpose of 4B.