Trump was allowed to do what he did to the Republicans because he is not a threat to anyone in power. That’s a very obviously different situation than a socialist, who is very much a threat and needed to be dealt with. They are not the same.
Democrats would rather lose than work with their left. Republicans are happy to work with their right, and that’s why they win.
Besides which, elections are over. If you’re so fucking smart and active and ready to do the work then you need to seriously prepare for when elections are either canceled or so hopelessly rigged that Democrats never win again. Maybe the left could have won with a more organized electoral strategy in 2016 or 2020, but that’s in the past! Here and now, we’re staring down the barrel of the end of elections. Instead of punching left, you’re going to have to march with us or you’ll hang with us.
Complete revisionist history. Before Trump got the nomination the first time, the Republicans did everything they could to prop up any other candidate but him. They worked far harder to stop Trump than the Dems ever did to stop Bernie. When Bernie ran his first time he won a majority of the early caucuses, a system that heavily favors party insiders. Aside from a handful of people at the top, Bernie was well loved in the party, but he failed to get votes.
Democrats would rather lose than work with their left.
The might be the biggest lie I’ve heard in years. The Dems have been willing to work with the left for my entire lifetime. It’s the lefts “my way or the highway” mentality towards politics that makes it impossible. Parties have to be able to garner over 50% support to win elections and win issues. The right wing has had an everything and the kitchen sink mentality towards politics for years, they will appease the far right and the moderate right and both show up. When the left tries to do the same the far left goes “you’re only doing 80% of what I wanted, that’s evil, you have to do everything I wanted because my viewpoint is the only correct one!”.
Yes, I do plan to do the work, because I’m not a lazy braindead idiot. The country is not lost yet, we still have to fight. And if it does fall, we still fight. That’s what people who aren’t caught up in their moral purity do, they look at the situation and make the best decision available to them. The reason you whine so much is because it’s so much easier than actually putting in effort. The world has always been a difficult place filled with selfish people, the only thing preventing disaster is good people taking action, be one of the good ones and do something, anything, to improve the world.
They didn’t do everything they could to stop Trump, Democrats showed there was one step further they could take: have everyone drop out and endorse a single candidate. Republicans also didn’t rig any of their primaries, and I’m pretty fucking sure Democrats did n Iowa (and as someone from Iowa I’m still mad about how they basically just sacrificed our state)
You talk a lot of shit. Did you even volunteer for Harris? Do any canvasing? Door knocking? Phonebanking? How much did you donate? My guess: you did literally nothing.
I’ve given thousands of hours of my life to politics and activism throughout my life, and intend to continue to. I don’t have to justify any of it to your brain rot.
Out of all the people that voted for Harris, how many of them do you think actually volunteered any time at all to her campaign? I’d guess it wasn’t even 0.1%.
What you’re accusing the US left of, of being armchair whiners, applies to nearly all USAmericans. People in this country believe politics is just complaining and voting every couple years, and this is true of Democrats and Republicans and Independents. The actual political engagement in the US is extremely low and it’s a serious problem.
I’ll choose to believe you, but you should realize you’re a rarity in the US. Half of us don’t even vote!
I agree, voting is the bare minimum, if people are so frustrated, it should drive them to action. Democracy is an imperfect system, but it only truly works if people are actively engaged with it. If we don’t start taking it seriously, we certainly won’t have it much longer, if not Trump someone after him will strip it from us.
At the end of the day, I don’t really care as much about the rift in the Dem party, as much as I care about the inaction on the left. If the left truly engaged with the process, in whatever way they choose, the path will open up for at least some reconciliation in both directions. The real problem is the inaction on the left, imo. The fatalism and despair that leads to lethargy. We need true activism beyond just protesting, such as citizen lobbying, getting involved in local community, joining affinity groups that have legislative goals, etc. All of that stuff forces the party to take notice, and it works. I’ve been involved in many things in my life that resulted in passed left wing legislation, it starts with people choosing to try to make a difference.
What could the left have done, more than they already had? There was the whole uncommitted movement of direct involvement in the primary process to make our voices heard, people demanded to speak to nominees and presented petitions and went to the media etc etc. That wasn’t fatalism, people did everything they could imagine and I don’t appreciate you shitting on them for it.
But what did the Party do in response?
They didn’t allow a single Palestinian-American to speak at the DNC!
So tell me, since you’re so good at politics and so incredibly motivated and smart, can you think of anything that they could have done to force the Democratic Party to adopt a resolution banning arms sales to Israel? Because I can’t.
There are all sorts of things that could have been done, but I’m not sure whether it would have moved the needle enough. You can’t just show up in the bottom of the 9th and say. “I’ve rarely hit for your team, but if you don’t do what I say I won’t hit a home run for you.” That’s one of the things I’ve been trying to communicate, all be it grumpily.
The left needs to integrate themselves into the party and into activism permanently. Yes we will be working with people with whom we profoundly disagree on some issues. But we will also agree on many things, and that will create progress. That progress will leave room for negotiation and firm resolution. When you’re already sitting at the table and already part of the team, then you have the power to make change. Especially because the left is large enough and passionate enough to completely overrun the party like the Trumpists did with the right. Instead the left repeatedly does the one thing that will always result in nothing, they refuse to participate.
Its not really about just voting. Though when 10 million people stay home just because they don’t like the top of the ticket, it’s definitely silly. Those down ballot races are filled with progressives and further left candidates that the left could actually be supporting.
They see abstention and protest as action. Protesting and refusing to participate is cathartic, but it has little to no impact on policy. We need to actually get organized and flex our power… Even if it is somewhat adjacent to the party, if millions of far left Americans truly organize and show they can work as a team, the Dems will be forced to bend towards us. The Dems consistently work with organized people. People that are organized are massive blocks of power with the ability to truly mobilize, It’s why the Dems have often been so integrated into labor unions.
I also think the issue with Israel includes hundreds of millions of dollars of campaign pressure against anyone who “falls out of line” from Christian and Jewish political action groups that support Israel. There needs to be far more organizing on the left to counteract that, we’ve done maybe 15% of what needs to be done if we really want to tip that scale. I have no faith in the left to really do that work. So people won’t do the work, and won’t vote… But won’t see how they are a part of the problem.
Trump was allowed to do what he did to the Republicans because he is not a threat to anyone in power. That’s a very obviously different situation than a socialist, who is very much a threat and needed to be dealt with. They are not the same.
Democrats would rather lose than work with their left. Republicans are happy to work with their right, and that’s why they win.
Besides which, elections are over. If you’re so fucking smart and active and ready to do the work then you need to seriously prepare for when elections are either canceled or so hopelessly rigged that Democrats never win again. Maybe the left could have won with a more organized electoral strategy in 2016 or 2020, but that’s in the past! Here and now, we’re staring down the barrel of the end of elections. Instead of punching left, you’re going to have to march with us or you’ll hang with us.
Complete revisionist history. Before Trump got the nomination the first time, the Republicans did everything they could to prop up any other candidate but him. They worked far harder to stop Trump than the Dems ever did to stop Bernie. When Bernie ran his first time he won a majority of the early caucuses, a system that heavily favors party insiders. Aside from a handful of people at the top, Bernie was well loved in the party, but he failed to get votes.
The might be the biggest lie I’ve heard in years. The Dems have been willing to work with the left for my entire lifetime. It’s the lefts “my way or the highway” mentality towards politics that makes it impossible. Parties have to be able to garner over 50% support to win elections and win issues. The right wing has had an everything and the kitchen sink mentality towards politics for years, they will appease the far right and the moderate right and both show up. When the left tries to do the same the far left goes “you’re only doing 80% of what I wanted, that’s evil, you have to do everything I wanted because my viewpoint is the only correct one!”.
Yes, I do plan to do the work, because I’m not a lazy braindead idiot. The country is not lost yet, we still have to fight. And if it does fall, we still fight. That’s what people who aren’t caught up in their moral purity do, they look at the situation and make the best decision available to them. The reason you whine so much is because it’s so much easier than actually putting in effort. The world has always been a difficult place filled with selfish people, the only thing preventing disaster is good people taking action, be one of the good ones and do something, anything, to improve the world.
They didn’t do everything they could to stop Trump, Democrats showed there was one step further they could take: have everyone drop out and endorse a single candidate. Republicans also didn’t rig any of their primaries, and I’m pretty fucking sure Democrats did n Iowa (and as someone from Iowa I’m still mad about how they basically just sacrificed our state)
You talk a lot of shit. Did you even volunteer for Harris? Do any canvasing? Door knocking? Phonebanking? How much did you donate? My guess: you did literally nothing.
I’ve given thousands of hours of my life to politics and activism throughout my life, and intend to continue to. I don’t have to justify any of it to your brain rot.
Maybe that’s true!
Out of all the people that voted for Harris, how many of them do you think actually volunteered any time at all to her campaign? I’d guess it wasn’t even 0.1%.
What you’re accusing the US left of, of being armchair whiners, applies to nearly all USAmericans. People in this country believe politics is just complaining and voting every couple years, and this is true of Democrats and Republicans and Independents. The actual political engagement in the US is extremely low and it’s a serious problem.
I’ll choose to believe you, but you should realize you’re a rarity in the US. Half of us don’t even vote!
I agree, voting is the bare minimum, if people are so frustrated, it should drive them to action. Democracy is an imperfect system, but it only truly works if people are actively engaged with it. If we don’t start taking it seriously, we certainly won’t have it much longer, if not Trump someone after him will strip it from us.
At the end of the day, I don’t really care as much about the rift in the Dem party, as much as I care about the inaction on the left. If the left truly engaged with the process, in whatever way they choose, the path will open up for at least some reconciliation in both directions. The real problem is the inaction on the left, imo. The fatalism and despair that leads to lethargy. We need true activism beyond just protesting, such as citizen lobbying, getting involved in local community, joining affinity groups that have legislative goals, etc. All of that stuff forces the party to take notice, and it works. I’ve been involved in many things in my life that resulted in passed left wing legislation, it starts with people choosing to try to make a difference.
Okay, so let’s look at the genocide in Gaza.
What could the left have done, more than they already had? There was the whole uncommitted movement of direct involvement in the primary process to make our voices heard, people demanded to speak to nominees and presented petitions and went to the media etc etc. That wasn’t fatalism, people did everything they could imagine and I don’t appreciate you shitting on them for it.
But what did the Party do in response?
They didn’t allow a single Palestinian-American to speak at the DNC!
So tell me, since you’re so good at politics and so incredibly motivated and smart, can you think of anything that they could have done to force the Democratic Party to adopt a resolution banning arms sales to Israel? Because I can’t.
There are all sorts of things that could have been done, but I’m not sure whether it would have moved the needle enough. You can’t just show up in the bottom of the 9th and say. “I’ve rarely hit for your team, but if you don’t do what I say I won’t hit a home run for you.” That’s one of the things I’ve been trying to communicate, all be it grumpily.
The left needs to integrate themselves into the party and into activism permanently. Yes we will be working with people with whom we profoundly disagree on some issues. But we will also agree on many things, and that will create progress. That progress will leave room for negotiation and firm resolution. When you’re already sitting at the table and already part of the team, then you have the power to make change. Especially because the left is large enough and passionate enough to completely overrun the party like the Trumpists did with the right. Instead the left repeatedly does the one thing that will always result in nothing, they refuse to participate.
Its not really about just voting. Though when 10 million people stay home just because they don’t like the top of the ticket, it’s definitely silly. Those down ballot races are filled with progressives and further left candidates that the left could actually be supporting.
They see abstention and protest as action. Protesting and refusing to participate is cathartic, but it has little to no impact on policy. We need to actually get organized and flex our power… Even if it is somewhat adjacent to the party, if millions of far left Americans truly organize and show they can work as a team, the Dems will be forced to bend towards us. The Dems consistently work with organized people. People that are organized are massive blocks of power with the ability to truly mobilize, It’s why the Dems have often been so integrated into labor unions.
I also think the issue with Israel includes hundreds of millions of dollars of campaign pressure against anyone who “falls out of line” from Christian and Jewish political action groups that support Israel. There needs to be far more organizing on the left to counteract that, we’ve done maybe 15% of what needs to be done if we really want to tip that scale. I have no faith in the left to really do that work. So people won’t do the work, and won’t vote… But won’t see how they are a part of the problem.
You have a lot of faith in voting.
So, what’s your plan now that we might not have real elections ever again?