Lol, this assumes that free elections still exist. That is very unlikely. This is all the same long term cycle. People don’t value democracy they value tiktok, real housewives, cheap gasoline and cheap eggs. There is no reason for them to recognize what they are losing before it’s too late. It is what it is
No they won’t because the opposition party will be crushed. This mirror’s Mussolini and Hitler exactly as a classical fascist rise to power. The Democrats will be no more in four years.
They’re already tearing themselves apart, as planned.
Republicans know that without a strong Democratic party, they will remain in power indefinitely. Once they have control over everything, they can crush any movement that aims to challenge them.
Anyone thinking that the next 4 years is an opportunity for a third party is going to be horrified when they find out what’s really coming.
If they need a sneak peak they can look no further than the history of Mussolini, or Hitler. The strenuous members of the parry are already being abandoned. The capitalists have already backed the fascist as is par for course. Next up is the installment into power and the oppression of any dissenters. Afterwards its a heyday on whatever scapegoats they’ve chosen and war.
The only goal now is survival and resistance.
Or he can pull an Orbán and keep the dems on life support, just strong enough that they will be an effective spoiler for anything new, but never strong enough to be an effective challenge.
Might as well revolt at that point.
Oh, you will get protests, even organized by Democrats! That’s the point, they will never be effective, but they will siphon off the willpower to actually start up meaningful protests to the point when the real shit goes down, protests won’t mean anything any more!
And if you organize a protest yourself? The Dems will come to support you, coopting the whole thing, and making sure it all stays civil and respectful while the police tear gas your ass!
I am not saying give up. There is light at the end of the tunnel. At least that’s how it feels right now in Hungary. But the tunnel is long and fucking dark, and you have just taken the first steps in, and Trump is going to try to make sure you can’t back out. And our way through was sending our corporatists masquerading as leftists to the garbage dump of history, as it should be.
You can’t protest, Trump will bring in the armed forces if you do.
Oh, that’s the point, in an Orbánesque society, some protests are allowed. A very often used playbook is to create an issue that his base can rabidly frothe about, most people don’t give a shit about, but it hurts a small minority of people enough that they will be very loud about being on the opposite side.
For Hungary, it was academic freedom for a university teaching mostly social sciences. Most people never even heard of it and had no opinion when laws were made to make its position untenable and basically destroy it. But the people immediately close to the issue were protesting like hell! They were out in orderly groups, with loudspeakers and signs on the streets of Budapest, week after week.
Orbán was very happy about this. Hungarian state media was frothing about how this university was destroying the fabric of society, so his base was rabidly against it. The people close to the issue were loudly trying to save it, but they were a minority. And you had a situation where there were weekly protests for half a year, representing a clear minority opinion, basically defanging all other protests for any other issue, while people got jaded into an opinion that protests don’t mean anything.
Orbán was not in the country even for most of this, that’s how much he cared.
Now imagine the same with Trump deciding to repeal the ADA. Most people don’t care about people with disabilities enough, but just enough people will be marching around the country to keep it in the news cycle constantly. All the while his supporters will be out in counterprotests dwarfing the others. And all the while if the economy tanks and there was real discontent, and there was space for real protests, you’d be called a Nazi and a Republican if you didn’t join in the existing “movement” headed by the Dems and didn’t abide by the “civil and high road” ways of protesting. Most people won’t even join your protest because they are tired of protests and protesters, and it will never work anyway, see all those other protests?
Sorry for the rant, I am really jaded by all this, and it just seemed so obvious years ago that the US was going down a Hungary path, and it’s just a boring dystopia from now on going forward. It doesn’t look like the people getting shot by the National Guard for protesting, it looks like you can do anything, you will always stay a minority, and decency dies a death of thousand cuts.
In this situation, the Democrats are irrelevant. They’re too bought into the rotten system to meaningfully change it.
Historically, fascist governments are voted in.
They’re never voted out.
But they can also be ended with protests. See East Germany.
Yes, but that was more a case of the government collapsing due to Germans fleeing through Hungary and Austria.
Besides, I don’t really want to wait 50 years for the GOP to finally wither away.
40 years and while that was definitely an important part of it, it was mainly half a million people protesting on the streets of every major city.
Just gotta get yourself a foreign sponsor to start sabotaging the US and get the rest of the world to stop selling you food, oil, or consumer goods like the US did to the DDR.
Haven’t seen many people asking, but aren’t an awful lot of votes being counted by ES&S?
Who even says we voted this one in?
Well, I’m hoping we are a little closer to Franco’s Spain, and things just peeter out once Trump dies.
Trump gonna die ( kill by it’s masters ) so Vance can get promoted as the perfect puppet to push the US even more into dictatorship using the coup for more violent repression of everyone they dont like
My bet is Trump gets the 25th amendment treatment just after he passes the 2-year mark of his term. That way, the back half of the term won’t start the timer on Vance’s 2-term limit and the fascists can keep Americans sleepwalking for the next 12 years before we collectively wake up and realize we’re in a dictatorship. I hope I’m wrong but I could easily imagine this plan already having been drawn up.
Why would there be term limits?
Franco’s a worst case, and there are still lingering problems in Spain due to the compromises made in order to restore democracy.
Ummm…are you forgetting WWII? No one is coming into the country to help us drag them to the Hegue. Of course there will be compromise. The only other scenario is WWIII.
There is also civil war though, or an USSR style dissolution of the union.
But they also seldom last long until they’re overthrown.
Mussolini had power for 21 years.
Franco for 36, though he took power by coup not votes.
And Orbán had 18 so far and 2 remaining from this term for a more recent example.
This is exactly what has me so horrified. Hitler was stopped as was Mussolini.
There’s no one strong enough to stop America and with our geographic and strategic locations we’re practically invincible. :(
A better example might be the collapse of communism in Russia and the former USSR. The system just got increasingly rotten until it crumbled from within. And despite the self-serving lies, Reagan had nothing to do with it. It was all down to the people in those countries who had finally had enough.
It was getting late for libs to start bringing up socialism to diagnose their fascist oligarchy. The USSR collapsed in the way most socialist states have collapsed: at gunpoint, after decades of siege, sabotage and outright insurrectionism sponsored or directly enacted by the US. It’s no accidentt that Vietnam, the DPRK and China have robust security states, you can’t survive the US without them.
It was all Russia for some of them. The Hungarians did jack shit and it shows to this day.
What if the economy doesn’t tank?
The President doesn’t have that much control over the economy. That’s a fundamental truth.
There will be awful policies but there’s no guarantee of an economic collapse here.
If Trump does what he said he will then there will be
Trump doesn’t do what he says he will do. Its pretty much random.
The reliable grift, such as anti-immigramt hate and anti-muslim stuff is obviously coming. And as awful as they will be, I’m not convinced that it will have an obvious effect on our economy.
When we start looking at things like Elon’s grift or other Billionaires he’s with, the stock market, crypto coins and other assets will go up. It seems unlikely to me that a crash would necessarily occur at the right timing you desire (this is bad for us in the long term. But the modern corporate economics world has become very good at hiding fraud and kicking cans down the road. Elon especially).
If they can hold most money together and make their supporters money (see Cryptocoin and Tesla stock right now), then they have a winning economic message for their core supporters.
Or do you think anyone actually gives a shit about how middle America will feel from this?
Markets are cyclic and we’re overdue for the AI bubble to pop. But I don’t think that automatically means the Democrats can win another presidential election or win the Senate.
overdue
That’s the problem. Bubbles keep growing until they don’t. And there’s no way to know when that will pop. This AI crap has been growing since 2016 AlphaGo or even 2012 IBM Watson.
I don’t think we were financing loans with GPUs as collateral back in 2012 or 2016: https://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/11/04/silicon-valley-and-wall-street-invent-collateralized-gpu-obligations-surely-this-will-work-out-fine/
Well, it keeps getting worse until some point. But it took like a decade of shitty CDOs of CDOs finally collapsed in 2007.
It got to the point where strippers (and other not so wealthy people) where buying 2 or 3 houses aiming to flip.
Bubbles always bubble longer than expected
And if Trump does the trillions in tax cuts like hes trying to do, then the economy floats longer
Whoop-de-frickin-doo.
If Project 2024 is implemented, it’ll take many consecutive terms with full control of Congress to fix the damage, assuming it can be fixed at all.
Repealing legislation is far easier than enacting it. Trump was able to repeal 112 climate regulations in his first term, during a pandemic.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html
And when the Democrats don’t fix it fast enough, Republicans will get elected all over again.
Love your optimism. Might not be another election, at least a fair one. I look for elections like Russia, where Putin gets 99 percent of the vote
I was going off disguy’s comment about consecutive terms of democratic control already assuming there was anything besides smoking ruins left.
We still haven’t recovered from Reagan. This is going to take a looooong time to fix.
Thanks non voters!
Thank them and the DNC. They did their best to accomplish this.
it’ll take many consecutive terms with full control of Congress to fix the damage, assuming it can be fixed at all
Assuming non-revolutionary means are used. If the Constitution is thrown out the window during this period of darkness, we are not going to be in a situation where incremental reform is called for. It’s going to be a phase shift.
Who are your allies in this “revolution?” Do you honestly think one half of the nation can take on the other half and the US government all at once?
We are divided, the wealthy are conquering.
Pretty sure those environmental regulations were all things Obama had to do through executive orders because the GOP controlled the legislature.
It’s much harder to undue things that have passed both houses and been signed into law.
True, for the time being. The fully Republican controlled Congress we have coming should have a much easier time than the split we have now.
Will they be as careful to keep the filibuster as the Dems did I wonder?
Lol no they will just burn it down.
Don’t forget the judges like Cannon they plan on installing now that they have full control of the Senate. Those people never go away. Any future government will have any attempt to make change shot down by rubber stamp judges.
The billionaire class won.
Removal of compromised officials is a typical move following a revolution. It would be entirely reasonable as well as necessary to remove every single official appointed by Trump or his successors, and to bar them from public office for life.
The billionaire class won.
They haven’t won until we’ve all surrendered or are all dead. Are you taking orders, or are you taking over? Those will be our only choices.
We’ll see. Right now we are in an UNBELIEVABLY good economy and I keep hearing - even from so-called leftists and centrists - just how terrible the economy is, etc., etc.
Yes, maybe white collar jobs have softened somewhat, starting in 2022, party because some of Big Tech overhired, but seriously, look at the various indicators…it’s almost all good.
Contrast this market with the dot-com bubble burst, or the 2008 fallout from banks fucking around with subprime markets. Just what is so bad about this economy?
The market is not the economy.
The market is a measure of how much wealth is being extracted from the working class.
If that’s what the economy is then it will never matter how good it is, because the working class people still can’t afford shit.
Perception is king. If people feel poor, even if they are not poor, they are poor.
From my experience talking with folks IRL they just food prices, home prices, and collage prices. My experience may be squed because I work at a supermarket and have to try to imply that it’s the fault of greed without getting in trouble for making people not buying stuff a few times a week.
They mean the cost of living, not economy.I wonder: did any of these people making these claims speak at all about what policy or policies changed this and what policy or policies will perform some kind of miracle to change it back?
You think there’s going to be another vote?
We’re a seesaw government now with both parties captured by corporations. Each party will take turns as the world turns to shit.
No, that’s what we were.
That’s how it’s been for basically decades
The cope among thr Democrats post election has been embarassing. 0 reflection as to why they lost (just like in 2016), blaming every possible external factor imaginable instead of thinking “hey, maybe we sucked and need to actualy be people that people want to elect” instead of relying on the “ooooh this guy is bed, better vote for us to keep him out” strategy.
They have fucked up in a major way, in what should have been a slam-dunk election, by ignoring what people actually want and trying to be Great Value Republicans when the right has Coca-Cola Fascism readily available to them.
I hope adherence to the corporate staus quo was worth it, you absolute fucking buffoons.
No they won’t.
Trump just said that he’s going to impose tariffs that are going to increase the cost of living by about $400 a month per family. Elon Musk just said he plans on imposing “hardship” on the country for a few years. And Americans voted ovewhelmingly in favor of that. The economy will tank, yes. But they’ll just blame Democrats and the voters will eat it up.
Don’t believe me? gestures at Tuesday.
That’s assuming we have another election at all. Trump – A man, remember, that has repeatedly said that terminating the Constitution was on the table – now has the White House, both branches of government, a supreme court largely appointed by him, and several state governments. Moderate republicans have been successfully rooted out or marginalized. Trump could very well follow through on that promise, backdropped by the thunderous applause of the other two branches of government.
And Americans voted ovewhelmingly in favor of that.
I really hate that I’m seeing this everywhere. Americans overwhelmingly didn’t vote. Yes, according to math that means they voted for Trump, but why they didn’t bother to vote is a lot more important. Yes, that means they’re responsible for what happens, but if Democrats can’t get people to vote for them how do they expect to win?
Not voting is the same thing as voting for a Republican. The odds are already stacked against any progressive candidate because conservatives are more willing to open their wallets to corporate donors. Non-voters are traitors just the same. They failed to accept their civic duty.
If Democrats can’t point at a fascist and say, “Look, I’m running against a literal fascist. You and I may disagree on some things, but we all know fascists are bad” while Trump aligns himself with other autocrats and fascists, then what is even happening in this world? We failed ourselves on election day. Trump has made himself known. A majority of voters picked him, and they collectively either completely ignored reality for the last decade or decided they’re on board with his vision. The party isn’t to blame, when the alternative was so foul. People chose this, whether through ignorance or malice. Make no mistake, both made an appearance
Nah bad economy means the incumbent gets kicked out.
Happens every time
Suspending or terminating the Constitution by the federal government is definitely a good reason for secession if I’ve ever seen one. I hope California and other such states are thinking hard about their future here. That would be the last act of the United states.
Oh, I’m not saying it would be a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. Secessions would be the least we’d have to worry about.
I’m just saying that in a world where Trump has seriously and repeatedly suggested it, his voting base has actively said they’re OK with it, and all 3 branches are firmly and securely in his pocket, Trump going so far as to actually suspending the Constitution is a very, very real possibility. Especially if he’s being advised by an administration stacked from top to bottom with Trump yes-men and crazies that make Qanon conspiracy theorists seem sane.
The trend is that when the economy is bad for the average person, it hurts the incumbent.
I don’t think the people whose votes swung the election in Trump’s favor know how tariffs work or what policies Musk has in mind. They don’t even know why eggs are expensive (bird flu); they just know things were cheaper last time Trump was president.
Of course that’s assuming there’s a free and fair election next time around.
And these goldfish forgot that gas prices were low because of a botched COVID response that way, way reduced demand and rocketed back up because we all got out of lockdown and demand went back to normal, at least that was partly why the prices went up.
A bit of that, a bit of ordinary inflation, and a bit of Putin’s war. I find it unlikely the current president had reasonable options to prevent any of that.
Complaining that people don’t know how economics work and that they have the memory of a goldfish is like complaining that knights move weird in chess.
These are the rules of the game we’re trying to win. Whining about how stupid everyone is doesn’t change the fact that we need to get stupid people to vote.
Price-gouging had a lot to do with it too.
This is the answer. Corporations were quite giddy over this, in fact.
I already had a trucker come into work saying the Dems have been propping up the economy and it’ll fail for God-Emperor Cheeto. Already making excuses.
Assuming Democrats are still around to campaign expect the same milquetoast, center-right bullshit platform of getting things “back to normal” to kill any kind of enthusiasm from their base. Don’t get me wrong I voted for Harris but I’m getting really tired of voting against having evil men in power over someone I actually like. I want Bernie Sanders, not Margaret Thatcher Lite.
They’ll campaign on abortion and re-legalizing gay/interracial marriage.
Those will require a trifecta of branches, with significant margins in the Senate, which will seem impossible so no one will vote for them because we’ll know they can’t deliver on what is being promised, just like this time around with Kamala and Abortion.
this is so naive
They needed to remind people how they had to scramble for toilet paper when Trump was in office. That was on his watch, not Biden’s.
Was Biden’s economy bad? Yeah, but not “buying bootleg toilet paper” bad.
Yes democrats will win again and republicans will win in the future as well. How insightful.
The problem is, the economy will rally in 2025 because of rampant deregulation. That rally will be marketed as “a booming economy”, even if it’s tanking by midterms. This will fuck our midterms chances. I hope I am wrong, but it seems obvious to me.
