I think understanding how they got that way is critical to the response to how to counter it. Are we trying to mitigate their damage, or are we trying to convince them to stop? After Tuesday, the priorities change, but right now it’s worth trying to win hearts and minds.
It is still very much their fault. Because, as the various internet atheists (self included) love to point out: Most of their hate and bigotry is outright against the bible. So even in their echo chambers they had opportunities to think for themselves.
And yes, win hearts and minds. Hell, keep doing that after Tuesday because we are definitely looking at chaos for months. But NEVER excuse the hatred and bigotry. They are wrong. Their being wrong has actively stolen basic human rights from roughly half the country and their being wrong is working to steal human rights from even more people.
You have to keep in mind, conservativism is not an ideology. It’s a palatable version of narcissism that allows “conservatives” to defend whatever positions they happen to like with no ties to consistency or rationality.
There are no fundamentally conservative beliefs, just people who define their beliefs based on who they are and where they are standing at any given time. Low taxes for me, high for thee. Government spending on me, none for thee. Deregulation for me, suffocating anti-competitive requirements for thee. My God is good and true, your God is evil or nonsense. Conservatives get abortions when they want them. Conservatives illegally emigrate when it is convenient. Conservatives will say or do anything they believe will help them, and will attack anyone they perceive to be a threat. That’s all the explanation there is. They feel no need to excuse their abhorrent values, because they are justified by their own identity.
I am right because I am good because I exist and want to be right and good. If I am wrong, it is a temporary oversight which does not require that I re-evaluate my worldview. Everyone makes mistakes, and I am a good person for recognizing it.
The strategy for dealing with a conservative is the same as a narcissist. You cannot convince a narcissist that they are wrong. You can convince a narcissist that you are on their side, and that helping you helps them. This will only last as long as you are on their side.
Or you can ignore a narcissist’s arguments and simply oppose their efforts. You can keep them from obtaining more power, and prevent them from exerting any influence on your life. Set boundaries, hold them accountable, concede no ground, accept no bullshit.
Conservativism is not a political ideology, it is an innate defect of an immature mind. Many people grow out of it, but far too many never do. Conservatives are taught at a young age that they don’t have to become a better person, as long as they join the good team.
I am just going to say this one more time because I am quite certain you aren’t reading anything:
Explanation, not excuse.
What you listed is an explanation. That explains WHY people are assholes. That does not excuse them being an asshole. And it is incredibly important to understand that.
Because excusing the pure evil of what a “side of the aisle” is doing in favor of “coming together”? That is how we got into this fucking mess. We refused to actually codify abortion rights because we didn’t want to anger people and, as a result, roughly half the country lost basic human rights while they were eating lunch. We try to compromise on people’s fundamental right to exist which leads to the stupidity of “I guess I’ll only breathe every other day?”
Understand where people came from. Do not excuse the fucking evil they did. Because if the only way they will oppose outright fucking evil is if you give them a handy? Fuck 'em. They are monsters who will never actually concede and just want to force you to concede.
Because
Low taxes for me, high for thee. Government spending on me, none for thee. Deregulation for me, suffocating anti-competitive requirements for thee
sounds like an evil mother fucker to me. And you yourself acknowledge
You can convince a narcissist that you are on their side, and that helping you helps them. This will only last as long as you are on their side.
Any compromise with them is just enabling them. Explain to them why they are wrong. Point out what the magats are doing to them. But fuck any concessions. We did that for decades and just lose and lose and lose.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying you’re trying to push molasses up a sandy hill. Don’t waste your time telling them why they’re wrong, or that they’re wrong. Conservatives aren’t capable of changing the way they think. You can choose to try to work with a conservative by making them see how helping you helps them, or you can work without them. You win by avoiding them entirely, because if they can’t beat you, it’s enough for them to obstruct your progress.
Being brainwashed and indoctrinated is an explanation, not an excuse.
They are still causing harm and they are still at fault for that. We can just understand how they got that way.
I think understanding how they got that way is critical to the response to how to counter it. Are we trying to mitigate their damage, or are we trying to convince them to stop? After Tuesday, the priorities change, but right now it’s worth trying to win hearts and minds.
deleted by creator
Yes. Explanation, not excuse.
It is still very much their fault. Because, as the various internet atheists (self included) love to point out: Most of their hate and bigotry is outright against the bible. So even in their echo chambers they had opportunities to think for themselves.
And yes, win hearts and minds. Hell, keep doing that after Tuesday because we are definitely looking at chaos for months. But NEVER excuse the hatred and bigotry. They are wrong. Their being wrong has actively stolen basic human rights from roughly half the country and their being wrong is working to steal human rights from even more people.
You have to keep in mind, conservativism is not an ideology. It’s a palatable version of narcissism that allows “conservatives” to defend whatever positions they happen to like with no ties to consistency or rationality.
There are no fundamentally conservative beliefs, just people who define their beliefs based on who they are and where they are standing at any given time. Low taxes for me, high for thee. Government spending on me, none for thee. Deregulation for me, suffocating anti-competitive requirements for thee. My God is good and true, your God is evil or nonsense. Conservatives get abortions when they want them. Conservatives illegally emigrate when it is convenient. Conservatives will say or do anything they believe will help them, and will attack anyone they perceive to be a threat. That’s all the explanation there is. They feel no need to excuse their abhorrent values, because they are justified by their own identity.
I am right because I am good because I exist and want to be right and good. If I am wrong, it is a temporary oversight which does not require that I re-evaluate my worldview. Everyone makes mistakes, and I am a good person for recognizing it.
The strategy for dealing with a conservative is the same as a narcissist. You cannot convince a narcissist that they are wrong. You can convince a narcissist that you are on their side, and that helping you helps them. This will only last as long as you are on their side.
Or you can ignore a narcissist’s arguments and simply oppose their efforts. You can keep them from obtaining more power, and prevent them from exerting any influence on your life. Set boundaries, hold them accountable, concede no ground, accept no bullshit.
Conservativism is not a political ideology, it is an innate defect of an immature mind. Many people grow out of it, but far too many never do. Conservatives are taught at a young age that they don’t have to become a better person, as long as they join the good team.
I am just going to say this one more time because I am quite certain you aren’t reading anything:
Explanation, not excuse.
What you listed is an explanation. That explains WHY people are assholes. That does not excuse them being an asshole. And it is incredibly important to understand that.
Because excusing the pure evil of what a “side of the aisle” is doing in favor of “coming together”? That is how we got into this fucking mess. We refused to actually codify abortion rights because we didn’t want to anger people and, as a result, roughly half the country lost basic human rights while they were eating lunch. We try to compromise on people’s fundamental right to exist which leads to the stupidity of “I guess I’ll only breathe every other day?”
Understand where people came from. Do not excuse the fucking evil they did. Because if the only way they will oppose outright fucking evil is if you give them a handy? Fuck 'em. They are monsters who will never actually concede and just want to force you to concede.
Because
sounds like an evil mother fucker to me. And you yourself acknowledge
Any compromise with them is just enabling them. Explain to them why they are wrong. Point out what the magats are doing to them. But fuck any concessions. We did that for decades and just lose and lose and lose.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying you’re trying to push molasses up a sandy hill. Don’t waste your time telling them why they’re wrong, or that they’re wrong. Conservatives aren’t capable of changing the way they think. You can choose to try to work with a conservative by making them see how helping you helps them, or you can work without them. You win by avoiding them entirely, because if they can’t beat you, it’s enough for them to obstruct your progress.
Yeah, just because “hurt people hurt people” is true doesn’t mean it’s okay for them to hurt people.