I’d hoped in the last days of the campaign that Harris would see the sense of pushing back on the genocide, but its clear now that she’s batshit crazy on this issue.
Democrats when a Muslim attends their convention
No but vote Harris unconditionally, she clearly hasn’t been dickbagging SE Michigan for the entirety of her campaign.
There’s no possible way she could lose this election because she refused to meet the very controversial and totally a minority of people wanting to end the funding a genocide.
It’s 100% because of Muslim
constituentssingle issue voters like these throwing their vote away for obviously no reason at all. It’s their fault for not sucking the DNC’s agenda like a good voter should. Don’t you all know how Trump would be a million times worse than the already full send Israel support Biden never once paused?This is a true democracy, there is no such thing here as demanding change by threatening to withhold your vote for a candidate. This definitely isn’t some systemic problem that has been occurring for several decades now.
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I hate this community lol. I’ll see you all in red Michigan this year.
Repeat of 2016.
Jesus Christ, how STUPID can you be? You invited him, let him in.
Either you fire whoever invited him or you fire whoever kicked him out. PICK ONE.
This is super weird. I went to a Harris rally in Madison, WI, and what he said about “only your wallet” was essentially true. Wallet, phone. If you had a bag of any kind, any size, they were searching it.
But there were most definitely different entrances for general admission (me) and “invited guests” who got some sort of special treatment. Different seating at least, some behind the speaker’s podium for sure. My gut tells me that if he was invited, especially having been a Democratic candidate for Congress, he would have had that “invited guest” status - and would have been in a special seating area, one which would surely indicate that he wasn’t going to be a protester … or whatever they thought he would do.
I’m brainstorming here, hear me out. I don’t think at all Trump will defend Palestine. The whole scenario is a Kobiashi Maru…. No win. I have MORE faith that Kamala will make a better negotiation attempt for resolution than Trump. But at this point, they want her to choose a side and when this is clearly a both sides lose, either choice hurts her. Am I wrong? Stupid honest question.
2/3 Americans support enforcing a ceasefire. 80% of Democrats support this. She wouldn’t lose nearly the amount of votes people claim she would if she were to take a stance. She would just lose out on the lobbying money from AIPAC and other pro Israel lobbyists.
She’s taken a stance, multiple times. The left doesn’t want to hear it.
March - https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1234822836/kamala-harris-benny-gantz-gaza-cease-fire-israel-hamas
July - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/harris-netanyahu-israel-cease-fire-00171315
They don’t want her to ask nicely for a cease fire. They want the US to pull all support and funding from Israel until the genocide is stopped indefinitely.
Or since she can’t make that happen currently, at least say that’s something she’s considering. Or even just that she disagrees with Biden at all on the war.
lol seriously. Just say you WANT to pull funding from Israel if elected. Like bitch, you don’t even have to actually do it to secure this election. The fact that she doesn’t seem to even be able to entertain the idea says a lot about what she plans to do if elected.
Lol.
Which won’t happen. They didn’t need our help starting the genocide and it will continue without our help.
No they cannot continue it without America’s help.
America is the only reason Iran and other countries have not yet attacked Israel themselves. And America is what’s holding the Houthis at bay and not allowing them to be a larger threat to Israel.
You’re both right by the way.
Israel can continue with or without America’s help.
You said it yourself.
America is the only reason Iran and other countries have not yet attacked Israel…
Iran is technologically and militarily inferior to Israel. An open war between Israel and Iran ends inevitably with the collapse of Iran as we know it. They only people in Iran who don’t know that to be true beyond any doubt are insane religious nutters who aren’t being objective. That’s why Iran’s direct, retaliatory responses have been so tepid and ineffective; first they shot down their own passenger airliner, then they spent billions on ballistic missiles and only killed two people, and one was Palestinian. Iran is fragile.
They’re ike Mitch KcConnel or Liz Cheney, Mike Pence, they spent so much time and effort whipping up even crazier hardliners in order to stay in power (including Hamas, Houthis, and Hezzbollah) that now Iran risks being over taken by actual hardliners at the first chance, who might do something stupid like turn fissile material into a weapon or launch a ground invasion at Israel.
The general United States response in either of these scenarios is not much of a secret. You can read all about it if you like to read think tank material. The plan has two parts: Iran will not build a nuclear weapon no matter the cost, and an Iranian invasion force mobilizing on Israel will be met and utterly crushed by the 1,600,000 ground troops the Pentagon plans to send in this scenario. Iran knows all this.
That’s why their direct retaliation has been so tepid, so incompetent and ineffective. First they got jumpy and shot down their own civilian airliner, then they spent billions on ballistic missiles and only killed two people, and one was Palestinian!
If the moderates in Israel start to think they might have a chance, nothing is left stopping Iran from building a nuclear weapon or invading Israel. In either case, remember, Israel is still a superior military force and will turn Tehran into a sheet of glass before one Iranian boot reaches Jerusalem.
Only obvious know nothings have hot takes on this that don’t account for these realities.^^
In either path leading to the collapse of Iran, millions of innocent people will die and The world will be wishing we were back to the days it took a year to see 50,000 dead because then it will be likely be 50,000 every day. Going to make Netanyahu look like Ghandi.
The Iran Nuclear Deal was the world’s last best chance at peaceful intervention. The only thing America can do now is make promises to Iran that we hope we don’t have to keep and unfortunately, the Likud party in Israel has found a way to exploit that fact. Luckily, Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, so something can be done about it.
That’s why Iran’s direct, retaliatory responses have been so tepid
No, it’s because America is holding a gun to their head saying “Try Something, we dare you.” Can Israel beat Iran in a fight? Maybe. Can they occupy it? Definitely not, they’re struggling to occupy Gaza and Lebanon who are being defended by militia groups. Iran is too big and has too big a population to be occupied by only Israel. And let’s not even get into what their neighbors would do. Even their biggest friend, Saudia Arabia, has starting telling Israel to not use their airspace and not target certain Iranian targets. Israel and Iran fights, it becomes a regional war. And the entire region hates Israel with a passion, so it’s not a stretch to think Israel would fight a lot more than Iran in that kind of war.
1,600,000 ground troops the Pentagon plans to send in this scenario. Iran knows all this.
Where’d you get that number from? That’s much more than half of the entire size of the US military. I highly doubt they would deploy that number of troops to a single area in any conflict.
Going to make Netanyahu look like Ghandi.
Netanyahu would be Hitler in this case. Creating a regional, or even a world, war in the name of race superiority and ethnic cleansing. Oh wait, he’s already doing that never mind.
Luckily, Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, so something can be done about it.
Calling Israel a democracy is a bit of a stretch IMO. A healthy democracy doesn’t limit journalistic integrity as well as imprison and kill journalists who speak up. Israel is pretty radicalized thanks to the culture of propaganda the government has propped up and uses. If you’re constituents can’t actually make informed decisions because you limit what they can know. Then it’s not a proper democracy.
They absolutely can, because like I said elsewhere, sniper bullets for kids are shockingly cheap.
True, but how long can Israel snipe kids down when they’re engaged on multiple fronts from different countries and militia groups throughout the middle east? I can guarantee you if it wasn’t for America’s promise to join Israel in the war if it comes to that Israel would be facing a lot more than Hamas and Hezbollah.
You have no idea what’s going on but felt the need to comment in support of enabling genocide anyway eh?
Nothing I said supports genocide, simply pointing out how your arguments will not stop the genocide.
If you want to be serious about stopping the genocide, there’s really only one answer… armed intervention in Israel, arrest Netanyahu and all of Likud, and put them through a war crimes trubunal. But nobody has the political capital or willpower to pull that off.
Like Sundial said, she’s not doing or saying anything new. She’s basically saying “nothing will fundamentally change”, which is a problem when the current situation she doesn’t intend to change involves the US bankrolling genocide.
Each of the examples provided is a generic call for a ceasefire with Harris being very careful so as not to be critical of Israel. This isn’t anything new. It’s simply a continuation of Bidens stance. And his stance is unequivocal support of Israel and then making generic calls for a ceasefire with nothing to show for it.
And they should lose solely on that issue.
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*Kobayashi
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Just like I said, for literally months, that Biden needed to step down/ drop out, or Dem’s lose,
Harris needs to come out in opposition to Israel or this is over. She’s not going to win Michigan.
if she loses just one of michigan or wisconsin, or pennsylvania, then its over. Unless she somehow turns texas, which is extremely unlikely, she needs most of the battleground states to win, and shes not looking good in those states right now.
The idea that she would get Texas or FL and still lose MI or WI is… basically absurdist, like there is almost no way that can happen.
Based on what?
Not the person you’re responding to, but from my memory/understanding:
Michigan is one of the epicenters of current Muslim immigration to the US, so there is a larger population of them then say in other areas of the US.
There have been multiple well publicized anti-Genocide protests/campaigns in Michigan, or at least that part of the Midwest (I’m going off memory).
Anti-genocide Democrat voters were the ones to start the Protest Votes against Biden during the primaries due to his stance on and unwavering support of the genocide being committed by Israel. They continue to say they will sit out this election and not vote Dem, or have/continue to push fellow Muslim Democrats that oppose America’s support in killing their loved ones in Gaza/the Middle East to vote third party.
These last two paragraphs are my personal opinion as someone begrudgingly voting for Harris, but the Democrat Party as a whole has an entitlement problem. Clinton felt entitled to the presidency in 2016, and therefore didn’t campaign in Michigan or take Trump seriously as an opposition candidate. The DNC refused to give Bernie an honest shake because it was “her time” or whatever (plus him not being establishment, “maintain the status quo” Democrat).
And now, it feels as if they feel they’re entitled to the presidency simply because their opponent is a fascist. Biden/Harris/Walz/the Democrats don’t need to listen to their constituents because the other option is fascism. But, and I’m not Muslim, from my perspective, if I’m only allowed 2 choices, and neither will agree to do even the slightest thing to prevent my loved ones from being killed… What is my motivation to make a choice if my loved ones die either way, and why would I care what my fellow party members want when they’re clearly disregarding my wants/needs?
Again, just my two cents.
The Muslim population of MI is less than 3%. I think they imagine they have more bargaining power than actually exists. Keep in mind that 3% does not mean all of them can even vote, so that number is much lower. Granted, in 2016 and 2020 the margins of victory were miniscule, but early voting numbers in every swing state are beyond expectations in 2024.
I don’t think they have the kind of numbers to back up their talk.
Bush was given Florida by SCOTUS over 532 votes, and I would imagine when fighting against fascism, you would be doing everything your power to garner votes, not polarize them. Especially when their demand is “can you stop supporting a genocide?”
I’m not saying I disagree with you, was just giving my interpretation of context to the other comment. I will say though, Democrats are famous for clutching defeat from the jaws of victory. We’ll have to see what the results bring in a couple weeks.
I think backing down to a position of what happened in previous elections is a red herring. I keep seeing this mentioned in relation to this topic. The problem with that is all records for early voting are being broken, and previous elections people have been more lax on making the effort. Not so this year.
Specifically in MI, you can see the turnout numbers here.
I expect as in other states that early voting is largely being driven by Democrats, but we will see.
I’ll give you that, and I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. People in this country are desperate for positive change.
They have bargaining power because they are the only people willing to vote for this issue.
If only these people will change their vote for it they get to decide.
“Bargaining power” in voting is determined by actual intent and impact. The math says they don’t have much of any, especially if this is the single issue they are trying to “bargain” over.
Even if 100% of the less than 2% of their entire group votes against Harris, you’d have to be betting that the other groups aren’t coming out in force FOR Harris, which seems to absolutely be the case right now. Facts are that maybe only 50% of that group will vote against her, which is about where the Dems are at anyway with the larger voting blocks in MI.
It doesn’t matter who wins. What matters is the number of voters not on the duopoly. That will signal how many voters there are to earn for politicians to not support Israel.
Politicians would be crazy to stop supporting Israel if it is always a winning move.
Well then that’s a losing battle if that’s your understanding of it.
There are double the number of US Jewish than Muslim, and if you’re asserting this is all about a flex for alliances and whatnot based solely on religions versus anything, the numbers aren’t there for Muslims trying said flex.
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2016 live example lol
At this point, she could do a full 180 and we all know she’s lying.
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https://www.democracynow.org/2024/10/24/michigan_ahmed_ghanim
