• ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      8 days ago

      There already are two. We must co-opt one with a populist candidate. The Republican Party was already hijacked by Trump. That leaves the Democratic Party.

          • BadmanDan@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            Trump didn’t run on any economic populism this year and won. Kamala did, and lost. It’s the electorate stupid!

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              8 days ago

              She scrubbed all economic populism from her campaign in the last couple months and pivoted to campaigning with neoconservatives.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  8 days ago

                  Where were the price controls to control price gouging? Where were the rent controls to fight corporate landlords and their price fixing? She mentioned this stuff once back in August and then that part of her agenda got really quiet for some reason.

                  • BadmanDan@lemmy.world
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                    8 days ago

                    She brought that up in one of her last town halls. And if she already said it, and it was well known, what’s the issue? Remember Trump’s platinum plan.

            • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              8 days ago

              https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform/

              Trump ran on a populist platform that wasn’t limited to economic populism. Harris didn’t have any compelling narrative whatsoever.

              It’s the electorate stupid!

              It’s worth while for the electorate to learn the right lessons. Otherwise there wouldn’t be people in this comment section trying to get everyone to learn the wrong lessons.

                • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  8 days ago

                  Trump’s populism is christian nationalism. Specifically white christian nationalism. So it’s not going to look Bernie’s populism. And those do whistles are, or at least were before they became so overt, dog whistles.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        8 days ago

        Bernie tried twice, Democrats demonstrated their ability to stop that shit in its tracks. It will not work.

        The only solution is for progressives to abandon the Party and start their own to replace it. The US has replaced parties before, it can be done again.

        • MrMakabar@slrpnk.net
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          8 days ago

          The Democrat establishment wants power and for that they have to win elections. So having an anti establishment candidate is preferable to them over a Republicans victory. If anything good came out of the last election, it is that Trump as horrible as he is can still win elections against an establishment Democrat, so the Democrats have to change.

          Also changing the parties does not work. The problem is systematic and the US really needs to change its election system, to get better politics.

        • MonkRome@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          It didn’t work with Bernie for more reasons than the parties resistance. A lot of people on the left that dislike the party don’t seem to understand that you still have to join the party and get involved with it if you want the party to move left. Party members and active involved people shape where the party goes. We absolutely can shift the Dems left, but it means holding our noses and becoming the party. The Dems have always been an open door, big tent, party. Walk into the tent and change minds…

            • MonkRome@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              Yeah, the Dems are made up of scared moderates, because the left has completely abandoned politics and conceded all their power. If you want the party to move left, become the party. It really isn’t mystical or complicated, power goes to those that take it. The left would rather stand on the outside looking in be cause at least they can complain and blame everyone else but themselves.

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                7 days ago

                What the hell are you talking about?

                They rat fucked Bernie out of the race in 2020 because they would rather lose than let a socialist become the nominee, and though they managed to win in 2020 because of COVID they failed to sustain that support and lost the popular vote. This was the direct result of the DNC rejecting their left portion of their base, because they’re the ones would rather critique power than take it.

                And now that Trump is in he’s going to make sure Democrats never win again. Are you going to join the Republicans and try to move them to the Left? 🙄

                The only means of obtaining power now is mass struggle. Your vote won’t count for shit ever again, if you’re even allowed to vote. Get with the program.

                • MonkRome@lemmy.world
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                  7 days ago

                  Bernie could have easily been the nominee, if people actually showed up and voted for him more than Hillary. I’m not shocked or bothered that a party protected their own. Bernie came from the outside as an independent and tried to take the nomination. And he could have the same way trump did to the right. I was all for it and supported him as well, but either way he didn’t get the votes he needed. Why? Why didn’t his mass of supporters show up in large enough numbers either time? Because the far left doesn’t do the work, they never have in my lifetime. While I’m pretty far left, I don’t identify with most of you because your all lazy fucking cowards. Your primary position is giving up and bending over and taking it. Politics is work, if you’re unwilling to do the work then for the love, stop fucking whining, your constant inaction built this. Own it, move forward, and fucking do something for once.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                    7 days ago

                    Trump was allowed to do what he did to the Republicans because he is not a threat to anyone in power. That’s a very obviously different situation than a socialist, who is very much a threat and needed to be dealt with. They are not the same.

                    Democrats would rather lose than work with their left. Republicans are happy to work with their right, and that’s why they win.

                    Besides which, elections are over. If you’re so fucking smart and active and ready to do the work then you need to seriously prepare for when elections are either canceled or so hopelessly rigged that Democrats never win again. Maybe the left could have won with a more organized electoral strategy in 2016 or 2020, but that’s in the past! Here and now, we’re staring down the barrel of the end of elections. Instead of punching left, you’re going to have to march with us or you’ll hang with us.

          • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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            8 days ago

            I tried to run for a small local position with the DNC using one of their arms that is for “funding and supporting small progressives” well that first bit is a lie. First question they asked me was how much money I had and if I had rich family to fund my campaign.

            I told them not really but I would rather talk policy and maybe alternatives to spending money and they told me to pretend to be religious to find a good church to get donations from cause there are some rich churches.

            I told them I was a Buddhist and happy for it, and they suggested I either find some other wealthy Buddhists cause they were sure I should be able to find some or maybe I should consider not running at all and just donating to this group or volunteering for free to them.

            This will take acceptance and support from the people that run the party and all the wealthy party owners that view themselves better than working class because of their connections and wealth.

            • MonkRome@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              I’ve worked for the party and even helped recruit candidates. Some of what you’re writing here seems very inconsistent with how we did things at least in Minnesota and Wisconsin. No one would ever address religion or social class at all here. And funding your own campaign is usually a fools errand, because raising money helps people become invested in your campaign.

              But candidates are still expected to fundraise in some way shape or form. You can’t be a viable candidate in today’s world without money. Until elections are publicly funded and banned from raising their own money, money will always be necessary. The ability to fundraise also proves viability, people that raise money show people are quite literally invested in your campaign, making them statistically likely to vote and more likely to volunteer for ‘get out the vote’ efforts.

              • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                8 days ago

                I understand all that but instead of starting with ways to start naturally and get your name out there it was directly to money. No, conversation on anything else. Just a dollar threshold for us to hit or get out of their hair.

                This was with the “run for something” group while in Florida. But there was definitely people from other states and they were all equally disturbed at the immediate grilling for us to fund ourselves and to be in a major religion.

                I do get that it seems ass backwards and incompatible with how a person would actually run for a local position and it’s why a lot of people have become disenfranchised by the whole system and party.

                  • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                    8 days ago

                    Oh sure. And I left but the group I worked with is national and as they brag the largest entry point for new candidates and they weren’t the state.

                    Florida just ends up an easy excuse to ignore that it’s millions of people experiencing situations closer to mine.

                    It’s not like Florida was a swing state or anything with a huge population and economy.

        • zephorah@lemm.ee
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          8 days ago

          Third party doesn’t work. You have to do what trump did, 1 man coup from the inside.

          • bstix@feddit.dk
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            8 days ago

            Apparently Republican voters are gonna set the mark at R regardless of who it is, so how about having someone like Bernie run in the Republican primary.

        • ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          8 days ago

          Trump tried once and it worked. Neoliberal ideas are entrenched in the minds of Americans. Neoliberalism only allows change to the people in charge of systems as it asserts, incorrectly, that our institutions are flawless. Since neoliberals only consider changing people, it is much easier for a fascist to convince a neoliberal to change the people in society. Where as it is much harder for a progressive or a socialist to convince a neoliberal to enact systemic change or redistribute wealth respectively.

          In short, people with neoliberal ideas in their head need to fully internalize neoliberalism as a scam.

          Abandoning the Democrats will not result in them being replaced. They will continue to exist by moving further to the right, as Democrats like Chris Murphy have already proposed.

          Starting a successful third party is mathematically impossible under a FPTP system. Third party candidates can only be spoiler candidates.