both companies notably ruined the internet in the 2010s by consolidating discourse then taking various steps to destroy the user experience and the feel of the communities for profit.

so, broadly, the web went from cozy, small hobby forums in the 90s and 00s, then with the 10s as a transitional period, the 20s being practically complete corporate control of online discourse.

it’s a bummer. but nothing lasts forever. where will we go next?

  • Andrew@piefed.socialEnglish
    1·
    2 months ago

    The experience from Brazil suggests that the viable ‘post-twitter’ is BlueSky. So one corporate-controlled platform that starts out okay and gets steadily worse is replaced by another, and the cycle continues.

    I don’t think there is a viable ‘post-reddit’ unfortunately , because they built up their userbase at a time when people would actually want to use a link aggregator, before the experience of clicking any external links became fraught and exhausting. So now reddit has the userbase, and they have the means to host images and videos internally, and none of the bots or the lack of API or the general weirdness of the place is enough to get people to leave. Potential competitors assume that they should offer an alternative link aggregator, whereas really the only competitor is something that could magically offer a comparable userbase size.

  • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
    1·
    2 months ago

    Take a look at the numbers - they aren’t exactly leaving so much as staying right there.

    Reddit has become like YouTube (or Twitch, Tiktok, whatever) - it provides a never-ending stream of “content”, albeit most of it made from AI these days after they pushed a large fraction of the human content creators away. And the users seem to not care one bit if it is a repost made from a decade or year ago, even copying the comments section line-for-line. It’s not like anyone is really “listening” anyway, they are simply waiting for their opportunity to speak - “^This”, “I also choose this guy’s wife”, “and my axe”, etc. We might despite such, but they seem to enjoy it? (which is good for us, as it contains them over there:-P)

    And Twitter, well, you can see for yourself. It could work itself up to offering full-on Nazi propaganda - oh wait, it already has!:-P - and those users won’t mind. “It’s where my audience is”, they cry - ignoring how that is becoming less & less true, but also… isn’t it? Why aren’t they moving their content to Mastodon? It seems to have too many systemic problems, hence is losing ground already before it has even really started. Some users might go to Bluesky though.

    Perhaps we’ll see a situation like TV where every provider offers “exclusive content” - the Fediverse being one, the Twitterverse (or whatever) being another, Reddit still yet another (with zombie resurrected content that people deleted, but it managed to scrape before that could happen, now reposted as bot-content under a thin guise of “no I’m a totally really real human, trust me bro” - plus, can you prove it, since despite you recognizing your words 100%, did you keep a copy of it, plus anyway they can trot out their legal claim to it in any case, hence whether they win or not either way you lose).

    When I joined Kbin.social, I used to hold out STRONG hopes for the Fediverse. But then the former started dying, I moved to Lemmy, made the mistake of making a comment in ChapoTrapHouse, and another somewhere in Lemmygrad.ml, the feedback from which caused me to almost quit social media entirely… and now I no longer think that Lemmy will end up being very popular, i.e. burst out to include a more mainstream audience (certainly not a single person that I have recommended it to irl has anything even neutral to say about it - even programmers - and instead every single one has expressed extreme distaste with the extremist propaganda that is allowed to be expressed here. every. single. one. I try to explain that you can block it all but… perhaps that’s not as fun for people, especially those not used to systems-level OS management tasks i.e. those who don’t use Arch btw:-D). I hope we are okay with that - definitely some people seem to prefer it that way even - but either way it is what it is. Though cross-platform aggregators like Mbin, Piefed, and Sublinks may hold some hope.

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    • 4shtonButcher@discuss.tchncs.de
      0·
      2 months ago

      This really resonates with me for the most part. I hate Reddit but it’s still the best I can find, especially for non-tech interests. At the same time nothing has felt personal for such a long time. On the 00s and early 10s I had forums that were mostly for a specific topic but they grew on me so I lurked their “off topic” channels a lot. I enjoyed it and felt like I belonged. Today it all hyper-optimized for maximum engagement, no matter how meaningful or enjoyable it is. A friend lured me into threads and I finally deleted it again two weeks in or so. I see nothing by people I care about but lots of bs from MAGAs or other idiotic takes that just scream “tell them how wrong they are” at me and I can’t take it any more.

      • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
        1·
        2 months ago

        Okay one powerful attraction of Lemmy is that here, some people are outright fucking KIND, and thoughtful, and considerate. And we can recognize their names more easily, due to the lower volume of content, and especially the lack of an algorithm pushing profits over your interests (you know that’s on purpose, right? People who pay money to X have their posts promoted more highly than those who do not - your own interests be damned). Like whenever we see a comment from Lvxferre I’m excited and always anticipate good things coming:-).

        img

        I gave up on that happening on Reddit a year ago - really multiple years but I stayed to help mod a couple small communities. There, thoughtful people are too often blown away by replies coming from the toxic scum, to the point where they, like me, didn’t even bother trying anymore.

        Therefore I was going to leave Reddit anyway, no matter what happened. I did not like who it was turning me into - always defensive, always encouraged to pounce on trivial matters just to have something to talk about I guess. Imagine staying on Truth Social - you will be affected by them, you may think that you won’t, but you will.

        Whereas here, if you block the big three (and are at least aware of Midwest.social), then you’ll still need to block hundreds of trolls - but it’s doable, one at a time, screetching their conservative agendas (even/especially those who label their thoughts as “leftist”). But it’s manageable, unlike on Reddit where outside of the niche subs with good moderators, it’s too difficult.

        Btw those subs may increasingly come under Huffman’s control - he worships the Musk, and he’ll at some point make an announcement about “we aim to provide a more consistent experience across Reddit” - and those mods will lose their ability to decide who is or is not a troll, especially when they say things that Reddit wants to keep (bc of increasing profits engagement). Whatever Reddit is now, just like X (though far slower it would seem), it will change.

        Btw you may be interested in this article: https://medium.com/@max.p.schlienger/the-cargo-cult-of-the-ennui-engine-890c541cebcb - this is what convinced me to leave Reddit, regardless of whether I could find a home here or not.