Hopefully the clients get much better. I convinced a few friends to get on Matrix last year… and… boy… it was a terrible experience. Everyone ended up going back to Discord and they probably won’t trust another recommendation from me.
UX is very difficult, unfortunately, especially for open-source projects where the contributors are usually programmers and not so much UX/product managers.
Look at the telegram client, which is open source and has the best UX for a messenger I know
Isn’t telegram a for-profit company?
The telegram apps are open source
Yeah, but repeated “This message cannot be decrypted” breaks its primary function as a chat app.
It’s getting harder and harder to disable their broken end to end encryption by default too.
Yes I’m waiting until it’s ready for the average user before I recommend it to anyone.
I’ve been very mindful not to recommend Matrix until the clients and protocol become much more stable. When you’re recommending platforms to average users you really need to jump in and try it yourself. If too many problems come up just don’t recommend. Or alternatively do recommend if you want them to leave you alone :3
I tried running a matrix server last year. I guess I will try again and see if a normie like me can make it somewhat usable.
With docker it’s quite easy (assuming you are familiar with docker)
But docker / containerization is a skill that becomes really really helpful to learn if you are interested in this type of thing.
What was difficult was the constant security checks, it happened like every time I changed devices and occasionally things were encrypted and unable to be read, it felt totally unusable. It’s true that I don’t quite get docker, I have a few services that run on dcker, but most of them run straight on arch. Yes I know arch isn’t ideal for servers, I’ll fix it next summer during school break
i guess they’ll actually be done Summer next year
It’s been here since 2003
i’m guessing they’ll actually be done in 6 months or so
I laughed a bit. Thanks.
Epic timing, I want to dive in and see if I can mirror setting up Discord communities in the most painless way possible. This seems to be a great step in the right direction. Imagine a place… where you get the best of both worlds and we can leave Discord behind.
Great because I hated matrix 1, hopefully two will be better
Do you like fight scenes on moving cars?
I loved the one with downloading martial arts directly into your brain
What is an MSC?
Matrix spec change
Think RFC
Matrix Spec Change. It’s how the Matrix protocol evolves, similar to the RFCs (requests for comments) used by Internet Engineering Task Force protocols.
Is it an improvement over xmpp ?
If the Matrix Foundation can deliver on all the points of this blog post then Matrix will take off as a platform. The problem I have is that in the past they’ve been poor at handling issues in any sort of reasonable time frame, or at all.
Hoping they’ll eventually turn over a new leaf.
But I haven’t even escaped the original matrix. Or the matrix reloaded.
You’re not the chosen one.
That’s what she said.
What is it?
I like this reddit comment’s explanation:
As someone said before, compare it to E-Mail.
Matrix ~ smtp/pop3/imap (protocol layer)
synapse ~ sendmail/postfix/dovecot/exchange/… (server)
element, fluffy, … ~ thunderbird, outlook, pine, elm, … (clients)
Everyone can host it’s own server and have it’s on private chat cloud. Thats like E-Mail and other opensource chat servers like Rocket.Chat, Mattermost and so on.
But like for E-Mail, it is easy possible to federate with others (like mail: “talk” to other mailservers), to be able to chat with people on other Matrix Servers. That’s the difference to most of the other opensource chat.servers, which are stuck to their cloud.
As for EMail: Choose your best weapon, will say, client or server software. The protocol is free and will stay free. At this time, there’s mainly synapse as the reference implementation from matrix.org and upcoming dendrite, but more servers will be available in future I think. At client side, theres element as the reference implementation and also some others, for example fluffy.chat.
Another cool feature ist bridging. The protocol specification allows bridges to other chat-systems, so you are for example able to talk to IRC-Servers or XMPP-Servers too. Many bridges are in development, less are stable. But more to come in future.
Matrix.org is “outsourced” from university and responsble for developing the specs. They are the big brain behind. They also server matrix.org as free service for people to test matrix or use it without having their own servers.
Element.io is also an outsourced company, which is developing element (reference clients). They are also selling hosted solutions to get money to the project.
Both are under the roof of the new Vector limited.
Because the Api is free, everyone can produce own servers an clients and (in theory) no one can take the whole network over. (in practice: if a big company does its own “cool” non open addons and has enough users, the same shit as for xmpp and WhatsApp could happen…)
Because everyone can host its own servers *and* optionally federate, the same product can be used for high secure private chat-clouds, for example in hostpital, military, schools, whatever, but it can also be uses to talk everyone like e-mail or phone. *And* no one has the masterhost, so no one has all data and no one can change the rules overnight to get money, more data or whatever.
From functional side: Matrix is what some people call “modern”, it has text chat, you can send files, you can do voice- and video-calls (in element: 1:1, for groups with jisi as backend) and send voice-messages (at least in fluffy.chat, upcoming in element also). You can also plugin things like etherpad or BigBluButton and send cute stickers if needed. You can structure your contacts with “spaces” (beta).
Element got better and better in the last year and is imho very easy to use for now, but with some last edges. Fluffy is somewhat easier some users as far as I’ve heared but not feature complete.
I hope, Matrix will be the E-Mail-Version of Chat in the future. I have reviewed some systems for my university and it was the only one from which I think it has the potential to do so. So, give it a try. It’s great.
Also on niche side because it’s a realtime encrypted data server you can also use it for transferring ANY realtime data, such as games and VR (see https://thirdroom.io/landing).
It really sets it apart to other federated systems like ActivityPub, or email to me, which those systems are better for eventually consistent data federation.
I would like to enter the Matrix.
Oh look, the version number match the number of users. ;)
Matrix is like one of the most popular apps. I don’t love it, but I use it because there’s more users there than Wire or Threema or XMPP.
Will regular Element support it soon? Or am I expected to install a new app?
It will, no need to install anything new
great project getting better all the time!
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Honestly in my experience all issues with decryption have been solved for more than a year. No matter if im using android, web or desktop. Idk about apple shit but thats just not a priority probably.
Todays desktop release finally enables the new voice/video calls/rooms feature which was the last serious complaint i had.
Even this week I still had the issue where I couldn’t decrypt messages in Element on android.
Looks like someone didn’t read the article. See part 4: Invisible Encryption. (Also note the Conclusion paragraph that explains the new functionality is only just starting to appear in clients.)
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So you were aware that this announcement includes fixes for the encryption issues, yet you decided to post a comment complaining about them anyway, ignoring the point of this post and giving readers the false impression that the issues are unaddressed.
And you did it just to contradict someone who finds the project useful.
That’s not helpful to anyone. Quite the opposite, I’d say.
Too much in the open source community is people saying this is great! Always has been. You shouldn’t crap on people being honest about the problems that have existed, because track record is important
You shouldn’t crap on people being honest about the problems that have existed,
I haven’t “crapped on” anyone. I just pointed out that a comment, which was an absolute declaration in present tense, is misleading, poorly informed, and needlessly quarrelsome. Because it is. And the author then tried to justify it by putting words (“has always been”) in someone else’s mouth. None of that is honest. It was arguing in bad faith, and it’s important to call that sort of thing out, because letting it go is how misinformation spreads.
If they had instead just presented their view as historical experience to help inform about track record, I wouldn’t have taken issue with it.
Too much in the open source community is people saying this is great!
Perhaps, although that’s common around proprietary software as well.
Great is subjective. Matrix has struggled with some problems that rightly frustrated people, but it also has accomplished some things that no other messaging platform has. By that measure, it is a great project. And the announcement we’re all discussing here demonstrates that it is getting better. Just as barkingspiders said.
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Awful to self-host (resources, administration) and rolling their own crypto
On the UX-Side it’s too complicated to explain to my parents.
I’d love for it to succeed, but for now I’ll just stick woth Signal
rolling their own crypto
No, it uses well-known, well-proven, standard crypto.
It also uses double-ratchet key management, much like what Signal does.
The reference server is a bit heavy if you’re federating with large public rooms, but lighter alternative servers are available.
they do have a special crypto usage which they have sensibly rewritten in Matrix 2.0
