cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15995282
Real unfortunate news for GrapheneOS users as Revolut has decided to ban the use of ‘non-google’ approved OSes. This is currently being posted about and updated by GrahpeneOS over at Bluesky for those who want to follow it more closely.
Edit: had to change the title, originally it said Uber too but I cannot find back to the source of ether that’s true or not…
fuk em keep using it
If you log out of your account it’s said you can’t log back in.
take your money over to their competitors
Oh great, I guess I’ll have to change my payment info for everything now. Fantastic.
I haven’t switched my phone yet, but will do so soon. Does anyone have experience with compatibility layers on phone, akin to wine? I unfortunately cannot go without my public transport apps, and they’re android or IOS only. I’ve looking into postmarket OS, but open for suggestions.
GrapheneOS is Android.
Huh TIL, thanks! So would apps usually work, just like on regular android? Except the aforementioned, of course.
Most EVERYTHING works unless your app dev is PoS like these guys.
Another alternative is MicroG which might work better in light of recent development.
How zealous are you on dumping google?
You can take a look at calyxOS, it’s what I use. Android but with all Google telemetry ripped out. It’s not as resistant as graphene against a govt adversary, but for privacy, better battery (bc google stuff isn’t constantly running) and still being able to use everything, it works great.
Well yes and no. The point is to stop using Google. And that entails quite a few things you might expect a phone to do
What public transport apps if I may ask? Most of Western Europe and especially Germany present no issues and even have OSS options, same with Finland.
Thanks for the input, i realise it’s been a while since I checked this! ÖBB Scotty, ÖBB Tickets (could forgo this one) and SBB mobile. I also need Digitales Amt (official government app for things like signing contracts without printing them, ordering your election materials to a different address than usual, checking your medical info etc). Do you happen to know whether that would work?
Don’t know and sadly my Pixel got stolen recently, but you can see if Offi or Transportr meet your needs, they’re available on fdroid.
I guess I have bad news for you regarding the government app: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/253-compatibility-for-austria-e-government-app
Anyway depending on your threat model keeping a normiephone as a decoy and mainlining something like graphene os can be a good opsec decision.
Nice, thanks for the tip! Also thanks for going through the trouble of finding out for me, I appreciate it! I’m unfortunately in one of the regions where it’s specifically not available. But the second phone thing might be an option. That, or just a compatibility layer with regular old android after all.
Well you can use Calyx instead, which supports microG instead of Graphene, at the expense of somewhat lower security level. Or wait until sandboxes google services gets patched accordingly.
You can use Waydroid on PostmarketOS to install Android apps. It basically runs a full VM for you.
This is very bad news, because this means any app that wants your data could do the same.
Err, you could firewall an app from your data in Private Space or Shelter for older Android versions. That should work on any Android device.
Maybe graphene will find a way into duping those apps to think you have a regular android phone?
On the other hand, it makes it easy to find which apps aren’t to be trusted with your data.
Also very obvious when an app or website have an US and an EU version. You just know they buttfuck the Americans because no rules.
Even Apple had to make two versions of iOS.
This is actually good, see it as an enrichment of your life. The only sad thing is Revolut though.
As an alternative to Authy I recommend Stratum (previously known as Authenticator Pro) https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.stratumauth.app
This due to its compatibility with Android wear (companion)
Can anyone who has used both Aegis and Stratum compare them?
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Would not updating Revolut keep the app compatible as long as you don’t sign out?
If so, don’t update the app and write down the build number of the last app version which worked on GrapheneOS. That way you would have a bit more time to sort things out.
They constantly force you to update or the app won’t work. I was already having issues with Revolut on GrapheneOS so I just closed my account and switched to Wise. The Revolut app was a bloated mess anyway.
Yupp thinking about doing the same, but want to wait a little to see if wise decides to do the same…
Guess I’ll have to follow suit, because I’d love to switch to graphene OS
FYI, grapheneOS devs added a list of apps to their wiki:
https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide#apps-banning-grapheneos
Are there any checker apps to see which of user’s installed apps have this? Looking up “Play Integrity API” only finds the checkers for the phone itself…
the problem here is not the banks or apps, the problem is Google Play Integrity API, which is supposed to enforce to run apps in secured phones and it is used to ban secured ROMs such as GrapheneOS and it allows to run apps on outdated phones without security patches.
So that’s why it works on lineage? They seem to get around this somehow
It runs in Lineage? Lineage is certified by Google Play Integrity API (I doubt it)? or Lineage tricks Google Play Integrity API?
Yes. These apps work and bank apps work fine. Netflix works too.
There are only problems with a bunch of applications that recently decided to use Play Integrity API not with every banking app nor Netflix.
This is the list: https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide#apps-banning-grapheneos
In fact those applications should not work with Lineage unless Play Integrity API is patched/cracked someway in Lineage.
Authy in that list works fine too
which is supposed to enforce to run apps in secured phones
The point of the Google Play Integrity API is to ensure that the user is not in control of their phone, but that one of a small number of megacorps are in control.
Can the user pull their data out of apps? Not acceptable. Can the user access the app file itself? Not acceptable. Can the user modify apps? Not acceptable.
Basically it ensures that the user has no control over their own computing.
If you install GrapheneOS, you do not need root, so GrapheneOS is in control of the phone not the user. The key here is if GrapheneOS is secure enough to be certified by Google Play Integrity API. is it security or other issue? perhaps Google is not supporter of FOSS ROMs, perhaps it is not fun of how GrapheneOS removes permissions to Google Apps, …
If it is not security, this is a kind of monopoly to control which ROMs are allowed to run apps.
It’s simply the “secure” isn’t meant for users but the cooperations. Make it “secure” to their busibess.
It’s used to help secure the businesses app yes. It helps with things like preventing resource abuse which would cost the company money. E.g. querying mass amounts of data on a loop to increase the companies bill.
Can the user access the app file itself? Not acceptable
This is possible on any Android phone, no root or custom rom required
Oh, the banks and regulators are to blame. Especially in Europe.
Find me a PSD2 bank bank that doesn’t require a phone number
In this case, thanks to regulation, it seems GrapheneOS team is talking with European Commission about this problem with Play Integrity API https://fosstodon.org/@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social/113623767380032309 and the only hope is a movement of the regulator against this policy of Google.
So the Play Integrity API is literally why I moved to iOS. My bank apps didn’t work with Lineage and the stock OnePlus ROM just sucked ass after the ColorOS or whatever update. I figured I might as well go iOS if I can’t have a custom ROM anyway, and so far it has indeed been a much nicer experience than stock Android. If you can’t TRULY customize everything, might as well at least get stability and consistency out of it, right? Plus at the time, there wasn’t a single Android OEM out there with truly long OS update support.
Anyway, if this succeeds and custom ROMs are considered to have sound integrity, I might just move back to Android. Graphene seems cool, I haven’t tried it yet because I’ve never owned a Pixel.
How would iOS be better? There is no blob-free, secure version on their devices at all. Right?
It’s not for privacy. But without access to custom ROMs, Android is shit.
Sure, but the ROMs is what makes Android a more secure platform
Sure, but my point was if you can’t even use ROMs because then you lose access to your bank (and now McD apparently), there’s much less reason to use Android - certainly was so 2.5 years ago when they were mostly all promising 2-3 years of support for flagship devices and Apple had a track record of 6-7 years.
Anyone tried waydroid or android in an emulator for these type of apps ?
Oh yeah that’s an insta-ban. And even the waydroid app devs say their security is atrocious and you shouldn’t use it for banking.
3 shites dropped.
Webapps everything you can like I do with Firefox and ublock origin. Fuck these assholes.
not really. services make the mobile site unusable. example:
- facebook: nags you to use the facebook app with popups and large banners
- facebook messenger: does not even let you to log in
Fuck Facebook. I left that shithole in 2015.
Not for Revolut. App only.
They do have a web app, it’s just very feature limited https://www.revolut.com/blog/post/introducing-the-revolut-web-app/
Like you can’t even pay people money kind of feature limited
Small OT: In the article it’s mentioned also the app “IO” (italian for the english word “I”). There are also other important italian apps not working without play services. The serious thing is that that apps are almost mandatory to do the ordinary public administration bureaucracy. We can say that the italian state forces its citizens to use a smartphone with Google Play Services installed. This is no sense.
modern fascism in action… state and corporate fusion. however, WHY DA FAQ would Italian state do this for the benefit of a foreign corporation…
I get US part of NATO but wtf
The italian government is full of fascists at the moment, but for me its more like tech ignorant laws. To make an example this is a comment of mine about piracy shield; I think that story can well explain the ignorance of italian government in tech related stuff.
Authy has been utter garbage for a long time and if you ever needed a reason to migrate away then now is as good as ever.
Do you have a replacement you would recommend?
I use TOTP in KeepassXC (or KeepassDX on mobile) because it’s fully local and available for desktop.
Oh, I was using Keepass2Android as a password vault, but was a little frustrated with it because occasionally it’ll forget to synchronize with the file before adding an entry and leave a “conflicted copy” I have to deal with manually. If KeepassDX will also do TOTPs that sounds perfect.
Well pick anyone listed in this AlternativeTo list but I recommend Aegis
