This meme is great, but I am very surprised that it hasn’t been downvoted to oblivion with the massive amount of libs that scroll around this community.
The best agitprop focuses on simple, uncontestable facts.
I love when not beating your child is used as a flex.
Congratulations! You are not THAT kind of asshole.
Sincerely, that kind of asshole
pov when you rather kill foreigners than feed your own (are they still going thru with those anti-homeless public seats? lol.)
Ues but thankfully not only two countries exist in the world. Picking between china and the usa is like picking shit with and without corn.
Imagine writing that completely unironically.
Imagine writing that completely unironically.
ok there parrot
Ok there edgelord
lmfao took you half a day to come up with that comeback and then you fucked it up on the first try 😂
Imagine thinking that telling someone they have a life and sleep sometimes is a burn 💀
if you had a life you would’ve just moved on
Imagine having someone reply the exact same thing back to you and get more up votes.
How embarrassing for you.
Removed by mod
What do you mean, different? Every country is different from each other. If you were clear about what you’re implying here, i.e. “different as in having no negative sides” then it would be obvious that your argument is against an absolute straw man. Nobody made such a claim.
It’s not like China doesn’t have issues but I think you don’t understand or want to think about just how incredibly fucked up the USA is. China is definitely way less bad.
How many countries have they couped? How many civil wars in poor countries are they responsible for? To you in your comfy home this is just academic but these are the worst atrocities in human history, and the USA does them one after the other after the other.
…says the guy on Lemmy criticizing the U.S. government and not getting thrown in jail for it.
I bet you used both your brain cells to write that reply.
Is it not a valid point?
No, it’s not.
Do you think it’s okay for us to bomb people because I can say on the internet that we shouldn’t bomb people?
China doesn’t call themselves “the leader of the free world” or “a shining city on a hill”. Sure, freedom of speech is generally better in the US than China (but don’t think that nobody ever gets put in jail for criticizing the government.) The fact remains that the US kills a lot of people.
I’m not Chinese. I can’t affect Chinese policy at all. I focus on the US because my voice is supposed to matter here, allegedly.
No. I think America’s violence is a problem.
No, not really. You’re just memory holing (or are ignorant of) the numerous clandestine operations done by the FBI and the CIA to destroy leftist movements of all stripes in the 20th century alone both abroad and at home. It’s an open secret that I suspect most americans are aware of but don’t want to actually deal with outside of TV.
MLK had government agents attempt to blackmail him with letters that even told him to commit suicide and ruin his marriage with his wife, he was also beaten and jailed by state governments for his demonstrations. That’s just one example, but a very good one considering MLK’s character and what he means nowadays to many liberals.
Currently, students across many universities are being targeted for Pro-Palestinian activism and there are laws in many states prohibiting the boycott of Israel for any reason. IDF soldiers are able to speak freely about their crimes but students in makeshift camps have their bodies beaten with batons, all for protesting against a genocide. Interestingly, China doesn’t have that problem, which is because contrary to your settler-colonial education, democracy can be practiced without constant violence and danger when the people’s demands and desires are actually being met.
China’s human rights record is a world above any European/American “Free nation”. This cannot be denied or disproved.
This isn’t even mentioning the amount of misinformation and hate speech that is regularly distributed in American news media and online platforms which silences voices of vulnerable groups. Trump didn’t come from thin air, he comes from the same arrogance you espouse here.
Speech is silenced and censored in America, you’re just fine with it.
You do understand that free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere, right? Us having more free speech here is just a function of the US government feeling more secure in its power, you can still find examples of free speech being punished in the US when it has threatened its power.
Then China must feel real threatened. According to this, it’s against the law in China to even say you don’t agree with the law.
“A citizen, when exercising the right of freedom of the press, shall abide by the Constitution and the law, and shall not oppose the basic principles established by the Constitution or damage the interests of the State, the society or the collective, or the lawful freedom and rights of other citizens.”
A million Uyghurs, whose only apparent crime is being Muslim, have been sent to labor camps and undergone forced sterilization.
Tiananmen Square started out as people peacefully protesting government corruption, and ended in the state murdering them.
With respect to free speech, there’s not even a comparison there with respect to America. It’s not “potato potato”.
A million Uyghurs, whose only apparent crime is being Muslim, have been sent to labor camps and undergone forced sterilization.
Do you know the sources of these claims? Because you’re repeating stuff that was first spread around by a German Christian nationalist (a euphemism) employed by a cia front group, which had already been debunked, and could be debunked by anyone looking at his methodology who is able to read mandarin.
Why is this myth pushed so hard by western countries which slaughter Muslims by the millions, and are engaged in genocide against a majority Muslim population as we speak?
Why do Muslim delegations visiting uniformly support the way China has treated its minority Muslim populations? Before you say sectarianism, investigate and realize that the delegations were intentionally multi-sectarian.
Tiananmen Square started out as people peacefully protesting government corruption, and ended in the state murdering them.
How violently do you think the US would have responded to US protestors trying to overthrow the government when they start burning and lynching to death unarmed soldiers? You can still find photos online of mutilated PLA soldiers corpses from june 2nd. 300 or so dead, including the soldiers that were killed, seems pretty light. Oh wait, the US military would never show up to a protest not armed to the teeth, silly me.
<rolls eyes>
lol
guess its fine for you to make claims but not fine for others to make counter claims. the free market of ideas at work.
Yep, that’s it.
hey, at least you’re honest
A million Uyghurs, whose only apparent crime is being Muslim, have been sent to labor camps and undergone forced sterilization.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing terrorist cells in Xinjiang, and once those efforts failed, it concocted and promoted a genocide narrative. Antony Blinken is still pushing this slop.
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
The “forced sterilization” nonsense is especially silly when even NATOpedia says otherwise. As part of China’s affirmative action policies, the Uyghurs and other ethic minorities were excepted from the One-Child policy, and in Xinjiang they have grown in numbers relative to Hans as a result, and this happened similarly with other ethnic minorities.
.
The blueprint of regime change operationsWe see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.
Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.
The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.
Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.
Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).
Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.
Tiananmen Square started out as people peacefully protesting government corruption, and ended in the state murdering them.
- The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.
- Columbia Journalism Review: The Myth of Tiananmen
- 1989 Tian’anmen Square riots
- A Note on the Tiananmen Protests
- Images from Tiananmen 1989 the West never shows (NSFW / CW: violence and death)
- Tank Man video footage. Tiananmen Square, Beijing, 1989
- How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning
- [Carl Zha’s] Memories of Tiananmen Protest
Well, it depends on what the government considers threatening.
The mere suggestion that the state is illegitimate in China would have gotten me disappeared. But I could join protests in the US denouncing the government in front of government-owned buildings without much worry.
But then we look at how China continues to develop and grow their sphere of global hegemony, while the US is collapsing before our very eyes. So it makes you wonder if ruling with an iron fist and crushing dissidents has some merit after all.
The mere suggestion that the state is illegitimate in China would have gotten me disappeared.
China has a smaller surveillance state than the US, so I doubt it. Also yeah, the US hasn’t faced serious coup attempts in the last 50 years.
So it makes you wonder if ruling with an iron fist and crushing dissidents has some merit after all.
Their execution or imprisonment stats must be much higher than the US! Wait. I’m just hearing… oh dear.
The justice system in the US is inexcusable, but China’s is also not great.
The vast majority of arrests lead to informal “administrative” detentions wherein you are held for (usually) a short time—a few weeks, maybe more if they don’t believe you’re reformed.
You get picked up one day and they tell you to confess. It’s in your best interests to confess to something, even if you think they have the wrong person, because they tell you it will go to trial if you don’t, and that would just be so hard on your family, right? They’ll highlight their impressive over 90% conviction rate too, so you know if you don’t confess you likely go to jail for years and your life is over.
You confess, you go to a detention center, any number of things can happen because it’s all informal and left to local officials, and then one day they just shove you back into the street like nothing happened. You’re likely out of a job now since you haven’t shown up in days, and you get some fun new restrictions on your ability to travel. But at least it wasn’t prison.
It’s also worth noting all this time that your family probably doesn’t know what happened to you.
Another factor that contributes to China’s lower incarceration rates is that they often choose not to prosecute “personal” crimes. This would be things like robbery, sexual assault, etc. where the victim is another individual citizen. Usually those are handled via financial compensation, essentially the victim can sue for damages, and there’s no need for trial or imprisonment if the offender just chooses to pay.
Their execution or imprisonment stats must be much higher than the US!
That’s the neat part! There aren’t any. China doesn’t publish their stats on executions and they don’t permit any external auditing of their justice system. What I do know is that, unlike the US, China does not bother with long prison sentences for those sentenced to death. Usually it just happens right after the trial, so those sentenced wouldn’t contribute to the imprisonment rate. But I don’t buy into the vague estimate of “thousands” that the UN and Amnesty International claim, so that’s probably a negligible statistic anyways. But I would certainly believe China is close to the top globally in terms of executions, even if they didn’t advertise it to those of us living there.
On the other hand, we should also start counting “shot by police” as an act of execution in the US. Might level the playing field after that.
TL;DR: Who needs high imprisonment rates when you could just go hard on the Panopticon Effect and make your entire society carceral in nature?
Wow that is a lot of citations needed.
You can make that exact same argument about dropping bombs.
When countries are threatened and dropping bombs relieves that threat instead of increases it, then they do. It’s just that right now violent escalation doesn’t benefit China, so it stays in the realm of sabre rattling
Sure, if you know literally nothing about the military industrial complex and government capture and its role in creating war, and you want to buy into the propaganda that the US only attacks when it feels threatened.
When countries are threatened and dropping bombs relieves that threat instead of increases it, then they do.
Settler-brained-as-fuck idea about how conflict works
This was not a defense of the USA you braindead idiot. I did not offer “feeling threatened” as an excuse for the USAs behaviour. The USA is threatened by the mere existence of successful countries that are not hypercapitalist (although tbf the tool used in this case is usually a coup, rather than bombs).
Not all countries consider the same things to be threats.
Lmao “free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere”
This statement would still be true if you were talking about Oceania. It’s totally meaningless. Who decides what speech threatens the government? The government. I can say fuck Joe Biden, fuck Donald Trump, and fuck every member of Congress and the Supreme Court. Can you point me towards someone living in China who’s comfortable openly saying “fuck Xi Jinping?”
Who decides what speech threatens the government? The government.
Uhuh. In other words, governments restrict speech that they think threatens them.
I can say fuck Joe Biden, fuck Donald Trump, and fuck every member of Congress and the Supreme Court. Can you point me towards someone living in China who’s comfortable openly saying “fuck Xi Jinping?”
First off, how many Chinese people have you actually talked to? You know there are Chinese people on the internet that you can talk to, right? And foreign exchange students? You can even visit the country if you want.
And yes, you’re free to say things that don’t actually threaten the US, like saying fuck Trump or Fuck Biden. You’re allowed to be as ineffectual as you’d like. Compare your statements to all the black lives matter organizers who’ve been found to commit suicide by bullets to the back of the head or public hanging from trees.
I haven’t actually met or talked to a lot of Chinese people, on account of not speaking the language, and the Great Firewall. I wonder why that’s there
You’ve acknowledged that I’m allowed to say things that don’t actually threaten the US government. Does comparing Xi Jinping to Winnie the Pooh actually threaten the Chinese government?
You know plenty of Chinese people speak English right? And Chinese citizens can pretty trivially bypass the firewall, the point of the firewall is protectionism for China’s tech sector.
Americans be like “Twitter is my human rights if you take my twitter you take away my humanity”
This isn’t crimes against humanity, it’s just a special bombing operation. For testing you know. How else do you know your bombs work if not by dropping them on indochina or the middle east? 乁| ･ 〰 ･ |ㄏ
The PRC needs to return land it has unjustly conquered.
From the KMT, from the Japanese, or from the feudal lords that re-established themselves during the Chinese Civil War?
🤡
🤡
Ok let’s see which way this goes.
🤡
How dare they “unjustly” conquer Chiang Kai-shek’s fascist state.
Actually…Drone bombings happen every 20 minutes or so 24 hours a day, then there’s the bombs dropped by manned aircraft too. Under Obama, they did so much drone bombing that they ran out of drone bombs
ofc china is the best super power in the world!!!
except if you live in africa… or taiwan… or tibet… or mongolia… or hongkong… or you’re a uigur… or you’re queer… or you’re black… or you’re a farmer… or you live in a tofu dreg building… or you like human rights… or free press… or privacy…
should I go on?
you see, china does a lot of bad things that don’t require bombs, which the us doesn’t, but in return they throw bombs, both are just imperialist genocide driving forces, as most states
also china’s not that far away from throwing bombs:
After a gish gallop of nonsense your only citation is “China does bombs too!” and it’s of their military training in their own territory
So you guzzled ALL of the burger’s propaganda huh?
Haha no you forgot xinjiang
Would China not drop bombs if they faced no consequences and it benefited them?
Idk, they probably have had the opportunity sometimes, but they don’t have the same military industrial complex as the USA pushing for it at every chance. So the cost benefit analysis is different. Quite often it doesn’t benefit “the USA” as much as a few specific people within, and that mechanic doesn’t exist in the same way for China.
What do you mean that mechanic doesn’t exist in the same way for China? Are you talking like China has achieved a classless utopia situation?
No, the arms manufacturers just don’t have the same level of influence over the government and armed forces that they do in America, and the people in the government who decide whether to drop bombs won’t personally get rich if they buy more bombs.
That isn’t something unique to China btw but basically almost every country except USA and a few others.
Do you think that dynamic wouldn’t exist for any country, including China, that had as much world influence as the US does now?
Can you be more clear in your question?
My point is that the real hard-to-swallow pill for people like OP is that China is not a magical place where everyone just sings kumbaya all day. China is just like any other country comprised of humans that has existed ever, and would do the same things the US is doing now if they could. The only reason this meme is in any way accurate is that China can’t realistically drop bombs like that, otherwise they would. Tankies like OP will defend imperialism all day long, as long as the imperialists say “Death To America!”. If the US poofed out of existence today, there would be a power vacuum quickly filled by exactly the same sort of people that are dropping those bombs in the meme.
So I guess my question is “What’s the point of pretending that China is any different?”
That’s just a thing you made up to justify not feeling bad, there is no reason to believe that anyone else would act the same way.
China is just like any other country comprised of humans that has existed ever, and would do the same things the US is doing now if they could.
Yeah, except they’re different countries, made up of different people, with a different culture, with a pretty much fundamentally different kind of organizational structure governing them. I don’t think “well, they’d probably do it too, if the US were gone” is a super convincing argument in favor of the US dropping bombs on people.
Your kind of reasoning is called “projection”. You are actually choking on that pill.
I mean- yeah, the birdcage model has been supplanted by majority public ownership at this point, the same incentives that create the military industrial complex don’t exist- if you’d like, i would recommend reading “Economy and Class Structure of German Fascism” which can be a handy reference point for the US military complex.
Saying that China doesn’t have a MIC is a non-sequitur. The incentive is power. If acquiring or maintaining power in China requires military expansion, it will happen.
Except imperialism is actually incredibly inefficient in the long term. Western nations become imperialist due to the contradictions created by capitalism.There is a reason why China’s foreign policy is centered around mutual advancement.
No, China has something called a democracy and Chinese people don’t want to drop bombs on little kids. Let me make that clear, Chinese people don’t want to blow up little kids. It might be hard to wrap your mind around but a majority of people don’t want something to happen, so it doesn’t happen.
The average American also doesn’t like the idea of having children be blown up, but they watch slop TV instead and complain about gas prices and having to wear a mask once in their life. When kids do get blown up the TV tells the american settler that they were evil kids, so they go back to complaining about tv shows and self-flattery.
Sorry, if you legitimately believe that China doesn’t drop bombs on people because that’s the will of the people then I don’t think there’s any further productive conversation to be had. I admire your ability to believe, though.
Crackkker projecting again
Seems you haven’t seen humanity ever in you life so you can’t imagine it existing
Sad
thank god it isn’t a dichotomy
thank god for your meaningless straw man of a vaguepost
Agreeing the USA sucks isn’t hard too swallow.
Been doing it every morning for 42 years
On average? So you just take all bombs dropped by the USA and divide it by the number of days the US has been a thing? Then you compare that to the amount of days China hasn’t dropped a bomb?
This makes no sense…
You want to know what the stats were calculated from? Because it sure as heck wasn’t “how many bombs has USA ever dropped ever”.
Over 337,000 bombs and missiles dropped from 2001-2021. This equals an average of 46 per day over a recent 20 year period.
https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davies-220112/
IDK why you’re being downvoted, you’re totally right. For this to be closer to a fair comparison, we’d need to know the averages for both countries over the same time period.
Let’s make the last 40 years our time window. China has dropped zero bombs in that period, making their average zero bombs dropped per day.
Now for the US, they’ve certainly dropped some bombs in the last 40 years. So that would make their average… Greater than zero bombs dropped per day… Oh…
If we take that back to let’s say 1949 when PRC was founded (to have the most timeframe possible) it would look even worse for USA because China still didn’t dropped much more bombs in that period but for USA it would include Korea, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia - 4 worst and most intensive aerial terror campaigns in history.
And those are like $10 mil apiece minimum, but no free lunch for YOUR unworthy poor children. They would rather pay $1000 to kill a foreign child than $1 to feed yours.
The $1000 comes from us and goes into their pocket… The $1 would come out of their pocket and into our kid’s mouth… Although, we’d probably need to buy the food from them too so the $1 would still end up back in their pocket… But the point of the system is to take money out of our pockets and put it in theirs, not to take it out of one of their pockets and put it in their other pocket
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation.
George Orwell, 1984
